Breaking the Cycle: Transforming Leadership to End High Turnover

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When you look at the top reasons why. People leave organizations issues with immediate managers is almost always cited as a top five reason. If you want to stop the revolving door, you have to triage and solve the leadership challenges that you have. First, you can do this by focusing on one of two, three things.

You can build more effective managers. You can build skill on conflict management or you can build better leadership capability. In this conversation, we'll look at how building leadership capability led a school district that had a 79 percent retention rate.

ublic Schools District. He's [: 00:01:00

He's got 26 years in the district and rose through the ranks. During his time there on the personal side, Tad resides in Sterling, Illinois, which is a rural community located in the Northwest portion of the state, about a hundred miles West of Chicago. He's been blessed to be married to his wife, Cindy, for the past 27 years.

And she is an educator as well. And she served as a chemistry teacher for the local community college. She's he's the proud dad of three children and they're all married And he actually considers himself the proud dad of six amazing children. And those children are in multiple different professional industries, and one of his passions is to learn about organizational structure and design.

So he takes particular enjoyment in hearing about their professional progress and companies that they're a part of. Tad, super excited to have you on the show. Welcome aboard.

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[00:01:59] Dr. Jim: [00:02:00] Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation. And I think when we look at stories that we like to tell my personal favorite is always going to be on the retention and turnover side just because that's really where my research wheelhouse is from. But before we dive into the meat of the conversation, I think it's going to be helpful for you to set the tone a little bit.

And tell the listeners a little bit more about some of the key moments in your career that helped you form your leadership philosophy.

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And my story kind of is really two different journeys within my leadership. [00:03:00] And the first portion of that was me really just trying to find my way. And one of the tasks that was provided by my board of education as I started my career was to address the revolving door of our administrative team.

rs in a district of just over: 3500

They don't really quit their jobs. And when I came to that realization, I understood that I had a real ownership piece to this issue that we're discussing. And it was just the retention of my administrative team.

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What was happening in your leadership journey where it took you a while to connect those dots? What happened that helped flip that switch for you.

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And, it was always that proverbial. This is your issue, not mine. And once I realized I love Simon Sinek's comment that the real job of a leader is not about being in charge, but rather taking care of those in your charge. And that was extremely convicting to [00:05:00] me. And so with that and just the second piece to that is just, I made a ton of mistakes early in my career.

thankful to have a board that gave me some grace and some opportunities to make mistakes. But now, having done this for so many years, I realize you show me somebody that hasn't made a lot of mistakes, hasn't learned from their mistakes. And as John C. Maxwell says, I'll show you somebody who's really arrogant.

And that was me early in my career. And so just the realization of how I can support And provide direction to my administrative team really was for me a full circle issue of growth and maturity. And so just taking that and not reinvented the wheel, but just through my time in experience, as well as reading and hearing other leaders talk, have just developed my own structure and frameworks to how to lead an administrative team.

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So what were some of the things that you did to repair some of those potentially strained relationships as you were going through your your leadership journey?

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Number one was morality issues. jobs. And second was tolerating weak principles. And so this first component to answer your question was I had to come to the realization that some of our principals had good relationships with them. But they were just not at the [00:07:00] professional level that I needed them to be and wanted them to be in our students deserved.

And so the tough First part of that was realizing that you did have some really difficult conversations about some individuals exiting our team or just plain getting better. And so that was the reality of the first strand. And then the second strand was simply. Me not understanding what our principles needed was a principal early in my career, but going back and just having, again, I say, tough conversations for myself talking and truly listening that idea of Simon Sinek talking about supporting your team and, Taking care of those in your charge.

job really brought to light [: 00:08:00

And so it just provided me an opportunity to establish a structure and that's what I use. And I call it a way, not the way.

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Paint us a picture of what was going on at the district level across all of the various schools in your district.

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And so we continue To work in those areas to provide additional supports [00:09:00] for our students that have language barriers as well as learning issues and and family structure, . With that how that played into the reality that are for our community and why this was such a big deal for our community was due to the demographics of our community.

There really wasn't. A lot of community criticism of how our students were performing academically. And that really came from us as our administrative team to set the standards by which we wanted to pursue academic excellence in our district. And so the re the realization of that is. Those of us that were setting that standard at times the realization again, part of that arrogance was that we were not establishing rigor in us, rigor enough, excuse me, measures and outcomes for us to meet.

t in the last seven or eight [: 00:10:00

[00:10:00] Dr. Jim: When I opened the show, I talked about how 1 of the things that you were able to accomplish as a district is going from a district that had somewhere in the neighborhood of the high 70s in terms of retention to over 90 percent in terms of retention. Now, when you look at that sort of transformation, it doesn't happen overnight and you already hinted at one of the key problems that existed in the space, which was, at your level not being at the right level of leadership maturity at the time.

Beyond your leadership evolution. What was the major factor that you saw that was driving that poor retention rate across the district?

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We understand from research that the value of a classroom teacher is the most important thing to a child's academic growth. But the. Secondly, is the leadership of that building and the revolving door that we had was really impacting that negatively. And we've since really prioritized and it's the only data piece that I keep on this topic and that is administrative retention.

And to your question, but why were people leaving? What did another district offer? that we did it and we found it was not necessarily compensation. Now, there were people that did leave. That's not part of our statistical research because they were getting an advancement in career. And so under, that's understandable for them, their family.

t we started working on, and [: 00:12:00

Over the last five to six years. And so we're proud of that.

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But when you're having those conversations, what were the things that stood out to you that were within the realm of controllable issues? And how did that shape sort of your perspective into the district as you started to uncover those things?

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What do you what If you had a supportive superintendent and or district office leadership team, what would that look like? And so we would hear things like the time commitment, our teacher evaluation system and discipline supports. And so we realized that we had to change. I had to change really my definition of what I thought Support looked and in comparison to what our principles.

Perceived and what they viewed as support. And that was a really important transformation for me. And it's led to again, the structures that I'm a framework guy. And this helped me establish a framework that, that provided me structure scaffolding in order to give support to our principals in the manner in which they viewed it, not.

in which I viewed it, which [: 00:14:00

[00:14:02] Dr. Jim: Let's talk about that framework. Tell us a little bit about what, how you develop that framework and what are the elements of the framework.

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And the big one being what supports really do our principals need to be successful. So with that. It's just a four step process and it's as simple as we love them, we support them, we invest in them, and then we hold them accountable. And so those four things are our steps in how I support those in my charge.

to love my staff and that's [: 00:15:00

And we often, and I used to do that. I need to do those in order. There's a saying that comes from Buzz Williams, coach, basketball coach at Texas A& M that says, I want to love my players, my, those in my charge so much that I earned the right to be able to hold them accountable and that's what we provide our structure.

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[00:15:51] Tad Everett: The idea of establishing an environment, a culture and a climate. Where people want to come work and want to stay. And a big part of that is [00:16:00] again, when I talk with my principals about what do you want, they want to boss that. understands them, supports them, gives them space to be creative and make mistakes.

And so that again, and that just that whole idea of feeling appreciated, it's that professional love scenario. And I, when I think about that and diving a little bit into that, that, That piece answers three questions for me. I want to know how you as a person, in this case, I'm talking about my administrative team, but as an individual, how you receive respect, appreciation and praise, because that's really important.

I want to know how you receive feedback and criticism. And I want to know why you make the decisions that you make. And so for me, those three things come in tools as how I answer those questions, because that's what they, again, the feedback that my administrative team talks about. We're not talking about that intimate love that we have with our spouse.

sional, we call it love, but [: 00:17:00

We want to show appreciation, praise, support for our principals. And so I use tools to answer those questions for me.

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And when you look at that four part framework, investment and accountability. There's a point where you have to have the conversation about, Hey, Jim, these are the things that you need to work on. So let's work on them. And that can be a difficult conversation, especially if you're not dealing with strong leadership bent from the person that's listening to [00:18:00] those messages.

So walk us through how you had those conversations, how you took the sting out of it and potentially even how you work together to build a plan that made sense for everybody.

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And the first is the five love languages for professional environments. And that's that idea of. Me finding out how you take appreciation and praise and how you accept it in the parallel example is if anybody's ever done five love languages for their spouse, it's how each of us as individuals receive love.

cepting that and they're not [: 00:19:00

How they receive respect and professional appreciation is really vitally important to the second piece of that. When they're not doing something well. I use the flip and feedback framework, which is phenomenal because it is the same way. It's structured in a manner that allows me as a boss to understand how you as an individual and in this case, an administrator receives feedback.

rators who was a great young [: 00:20:00

I was providing feedback, constructive feedback in the manner in which I receive it. And the realization of that is there was no change in this individual's. Behavior decision making. And so with that, this framework was the aha moment for me. Again, the work is out of the flip flippin group. And once I realized I had my administrative team work through this and they provided.

Characteristics by which they best can receive constructive feedback. Oh, I was doing it the exact opposite way. The message didn't change. These are the things I need you to do to improve the manner in which I provided the messaging was the key ticket because I can say now, years later, that individual.

so those characteristics are [: 00:21:00

And I'm a huge Enneagram advocate. I don't work for them by any means, but it gives me great structure as why my administrative team. So I use those three tools and they help me professionally love my administrators and show them support.

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[00:21:59] Tad Everett: [00:22:00] So to put that all into practical practice. I am old school in this particular scenario, and that is I keep a binder in my office that has everyone, all 21 of my administrators, and each has a tab. And within that structure, I have each individual's five love languages their feedback framework.

And their Enneagram and a couple of other things that are not relevant to this topic. So the practicality for me and how I stay on top of this is when I meet with my principals on a very periodic basis and when I have a conversation with them, whether it's again, providing them praise or it's providing them constructive feedback or we're going through just statistical data, whatever the case may be when there's change involved.

en can organize that meeting [: 00:23:00

They can get better. Or they can get out and we all know that there comes a point in time. My entire intent is to support support. until I've made the decision that this person needs to go. And so I hope that is tenfold of support prior to that time. And this is a way of me providing that support because it's the structure of the conversation.

rators based upon their data [: 00:24:00

And in a manner that you would want your boss to talk to you. And so that has changed and I have to strategize for those Jim, those meetings, but it has been so worth the time. Because I get better results and the results again, the only thing we look at is retention rates and they talk about that idea of feeling appreciated and so that's how it's worked for us again, I would never say it's the way it's a way and it's our way

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What was your process for figuring that out?

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And I differ from that opinion when it comes to the investment piece. I look at my administrative team, the 21 of them from the perspective of an NBA basketball team. So you think about any NBA basketball team, you're going to have your starters, or excuse me, you're going to have your first year and your all stars, your starters, I say your role players, and then your bench warmers.

And so from that [: 00:26:00

And so in baseball, they call that the war factor winning against replacement. It's that same analogy that and so if I have an all star on my team, somebody that is phenomenal. Elite performer. I'm going to treat him or her as an all star. It doesn't mean I'm going to give them necessarily preferential treatment, but it's the realization that I am going to understand that I have to really invest.

e than their teammates. Then [: 00:27:00

They may not receive quite the same commitments for me, they may not depending upon the individual, but they are important. There are some of the best players on my team. They're just not all stars yet. Then you have people that are role players. Before I go to that, if I lose a starter, it's one of the best players on my team.

And so at that point, I'm going to feel that maybe not to the extent because all stars are really not replaceable. And starters are those individuals that are usually really high potential. They just aren't there yet. And then you have that third component and that's people that are role players.

nt they're going to make it. [: 00:28:00

And they're those individuals that are don't play a lot. They could be a first year principal at this point or a first year assistant principal, but they are at a point where they are not a major part. And if I lose a role player, or if I lose a. bench warmer. Those people are replaceable.

Now, the significance of this is we talk about it organizationally. They may have a different view of what category they're in. I also have to have a mirror view of what category my bosses think that I'm in. We all think we're probably a little bit better than we are. And we also sometimes think we're worse than we are.

and role players. And that's [: 00:29:00

To replace another benchwarmer, I can't find another all star. And so I've got to really work at structuring my time and investment into those people. And some people don't like that structure, but it's worked for me. And it's the understanding of realizing talent also.

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[00:29:26] Tad Everett: Please

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Is it going to be maximized at the people that are already performing at an elite level, in terms of what I invest? Or I might actually consider my time is going to be better spent trying to develop more all stars. So maybe I need to focus more on my starters. And my role players and getting them [00:30:00] built up so that I have a deeper strength or bench behind the all star and maybe even a couple more all stars that I didn't realize.

So what's the mistake in your opinion in indexing on the second and third tier versus the all star tier.

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And this was the conversation the reality of that for this individual was. That person received the contract that he or she received based upon the fact that he or she's an all star and it was really the first time that I had that conversation with that employee about, this individual brings to our team value that unfortunately you at this time do not.

And [: 00:31:00

The fact of the matter is that employee and why we talk about these things openly now is because that was the first time this employee had really heard that structure and realize, Oh, bleep, my boss doesn't respect me as much in my abilities as I think. He should. And that employee was not with us in the longterm.

ult conversations. The topic [: 00:32:00

And with my board of education there are difficult ones to have. This falls on those lines that the decision. is sometimes and most times not as important as the process by which you get to that decision. And so that analogy and why I'm using that is to answer your question. The downfall to this and categorizing people is It can backfire, and I can be wrong.

I may say, Jim, I think that you're a role player right now, and you completely disagree with that, and you go be a starter for another team, and I lose in that, because I, and so again, there is a I'm trying to use the baseball analogy of war, and I have, I've racked my brain about trying to create, like Major League Baseball has, a statistical role.

how I could better provide a [: 00:33:00

I, excuse me, I like the idea of being able to have some objectivity.

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What are the key things that you feel are important for those leaders who are looking for that sort of information? What are the key lessons that they can take from what you've learned and [00:34:00] apply in their districts?

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And I thought I knew best. And once I started asking them what they needed, sometimes it was just. They needed time with me. I need to brainstorm ideas with you. I need space to work. I need advice from you and I don't want to be, counseled. And so that, that idea of those were things that I did not understand that my principals really needed.

am and whether or not it is. [: 00:35:00

And so then for me it was building that scaffolding that would Provide what they needed. And I think that's an ongoing question for me. This is a framework that is going to be ever changing so that I can meet the needs of different people. generational gaps and professional expectations and so that I can recruit and maintain high quality administrators because their job is so important to the growth of our teachers and our students.

where I would start. And the [: 00:36:00

Because we talk about this industry and teachers We're missing a huge piece when we don't talk about also our administrators and the few people in our candidacy pools. Our job is to develop them from within and love them and support them, invest in them, and then hold them accountable.

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[00:36:37] Tad Everett: I I would always say email sterlingpublicschools.org is our website. And you can get in touch with me from that venue. And Yeah, would love to have that conversation

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Because if you're seeing situations happening on the ground, Yes, part of it is a them issue, but most of it is a you issue. So what are the things that you're doing that's leading to these things manifesting in your environment? And then when you look at, okay, once you've solved for that, what are some of the other things that you should be doing?

First you need to build. Capability within yourself to be able to meet and understand people where they're at. So if you're not taking the time to really understand what each person on your team is at from a development perspective, and it needs perspective, you need to build that scaffolding first, then.

fically how you message in a [: 00:38:00

And then. The fourth thing that stood out about this entire conversation is that you should always be evaluating where your team is from an overall strengths perspective. It's there is no one size fits all approach to determining what sort of bench strength you have as an organization, and there's always going to be people that are at different tiers.

Within your organization, from a capability perspective, you as a leader need to take the time to develop those people based on where they are and then allocate your time accordingly to what makes the most sense for you and your organization. Tad, I really appreciate you sharing that. Those pieces of insights with us.

ke the discussion, make sure [: 00:39:00