Creating a Culture of Productive Debate

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Kate, welcome to the show.

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[00:00:23] Dr. Jim: Pumped to have you on. And I think the first order of business before. Before we get into the main conversation is getting to know you a little bit better. So share with the listeners a little bit more about your story, a little bit more about built and how all that ties together

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[00:01:12] Dr. Jim: One of the things that I'm really curious about during your almost two years of Built, I want you to wind it back to when you first joined. Why did you join Built? What was it about the organization that stood out? That had you pull the trigger and join the organization.

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Cause you know when Bill first approached me and it was a tech startup based in Nashville, Tennessee, and I'm East coast base, I said this isn't what I had in mind for my next career step. And, didn't think much of it, but always open to take a phone call. And three things stood out to me.

in the market for what we're [: 00:02:00

And I think that there's things like this are few and far between. And so saw that opportunity. And then third, the role itself being the chief people officer and having the whole remit of the entire people organization and being able to build it, no pun intended, in my vision and how I wanted it to be was really exciting and an exciting opportunity.

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A lot of the influence that a chief people officer or a C. H. R. O. Has within the organization is defined. By the level of alignment between that person, the broader executive team, and also, most importantly, the CEO. So when you look at the vision compared to reality, what role has this, has your CEO played in helping you [00:03:00] achieve the things that you want to achieve?

That you had wanted to achieve before joining the organization.

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I feel like I knew what I was signing up for. I'm so fortunate. My relationship with my CEO is fantastic. We get along super well. Like I say, the one plus one equals three. He is completely empowers me and enables me to have agency and make decisions and really shape what people in culture are. We regularly debate and, share ideas and, go toe to toe, but in a way that's so professionally healthy.

And I'm just so fortunate to have somebody like him, like rallying behind me and really supporting not just my own individual career, but how people and culture is playing out at built broadly.

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What role does that play?

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And it's not just me and my CEO. It's the our entire executive team. When we're around the table. We're really pushing on each other's ideas, and I don't think that I would be doing my job if I wasn't challenging our executive team and our leaders on how they think about things. The best thing I can do for them as a team and us as an organization is really push on their ideas and challenge them and ask questions and seek to understand.

n is for that to continue to [: 00:05:00

Like this notion that conflict, like you want to be, converge on ideas versus diverge. And for me, it's the divergence that actually creates the best ideas.

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[00:05:33] Kate Manahan: Yes, great question. I want all of our leaders to engage in productive conflict debate, candor, feedback, all of it. But interestingly, I actually think the best leaders not only do that upward and with their peers, They welcome it from the teams below them. And that's what I think is a critical piece getting people ready to lead Is enabling them to ensure that they have their direct reports pushing on them and that they're creating an environment where?

They are leading [: 00:06:00

[00:06:03] Dr. Jim: What I hear from you is that's a necessary cultural element for high performing teams and in getting people ready to lead. So if you're a leader and you want to build that sort of culture, what steps should you be taking to invite that confrontation and fight that debate from the people that are rolling into your organization?

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You create the space, and you're very explicit about it. The second thing I think is role modeling what that looks like and role modeling not just productive conflict But also role modeling things like vulnerability I'm the first one to share with the team if I've made a mistake or if I thought something didn't go well Because I want them to understand that [00:07:00] is not just okay That's important to have that level of self awareness and know where we need to grow and where we need to improve So I think it's be intentional about it create the space and then also role model what great looks like

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You just mentioned role modeling. What are some of the other things that leaders should be doing to get people in a position to lead better when they get promoted into a different role?

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It's not thinking about the team first and rather oneself first. And what I mean by that is you show up, what does my schedule look like today? What are the deliverables on my plate? What do I have to do versus this leadership mindset of team first? Wake up in the morning. How is so and so doing? Who's on my like hit list this morning that I need to just check in with either for [00:08:00] developmental things or their priorities or personal well being And I liken it so I'm a parent myself And so I liken it to also being a parent where you know once I started having kids I didn't wake up in the morning and think about myself I thought about who's got to get to school and who needs to eat breakfast and doing that as a leader I think is equally as important, and I don't think folks have that mindset enough

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There's this whole debate about what work structure should look like. Should we be on site? Should we be hybrid? Should we be remote? When you're applying team first principles as a leader, where do you stand on how work should be done?

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We've wrestled with it at built as well. I'm a big proponent of creating collaborative, cohesive relationships among a team, and I think you have to have some in person collaboration to do that. I think what that looks like in terms of cadence or frequency there's a lot of different options depending on the [00:09:00] context of the team and the business or whatever it might be.

But I think being entirely remote just takes away at least the speed in which you can create some of those trust based collaborative relationships.

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And when they're pressed on it. And it's usually couched in terms of productivity. And what the data showed is that when everybody had to go remote during the COVID era, productivity went through the roof. You had some other things that went through the roof too. But what bothers me more about the hardline folks that say, Hey, we have to be on site in order to have these great things.

It's a little bit of the magical thinking that comes into play just because you're doing a thing doesn't mean that you're going to automatically Generate these outcomes, so I'm not necessarily in disagreement with you

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And I, but I also think that it depends on what type of productivity. I'm actually a perfect example of it. Build's based in Nashville, Tennessee. I live in Fairfield, Connecticut. And I travel to Build once or twice a month. And I'm able to build the relationships with my team and the organization.

What my productivity looks like when I'm at home is very different than my in office productivity. I have intentional presence when I'm there, and I think very deliberately around who am I spending time with, and what groups am I spending time with. As opposed to when I'm home, it's like very heads down work.

And so I think as long as you're just very intentional about how am I spending my time based on where I am, that's where you get some of the productivity. But I think, like I said, there's a lot of different ways the frequency and cadence of being together can look like. There's some of my people I only see once a quarter.

But that once a quarter when we come together, we're focused on building relationships and collaboration and all of that.

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and I appreciate you sharing that with us Kate, I know that we can talk about any one of these things a lot longer, but if folks want to continue the conversation, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

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manahanatgetbuilt. com.

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I think if you're looking at the concepts or principles of continuous improvement and building a high performance team, if you're not allowing space and creating space [00:12:00] intentionally for different viewpoints to surface. And using that as a catalyst for iterating to the next step. You're setting yourself up for failure and you're setting yourself up to be frankly mediocre.

So I really appreciate you sharing that. For those of you who have been listening to this conversation, we appreciate you hanging out. If you liked it, leave us a review. If you haven't already done so, make sure you join the HR Impact community. You can find that at www. engagerocket. co slash HR Impact.

And then tune in next week. Next time where we'll have another great leaders sharing with us the game changing insights that help them build a high performing team.