From Crisis to Transformation: Superintendency Under Pressure

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And in any sector, it's not enough to make progress. You need to make progress at a faster rate than anyone else around you. If you don't, it usually means extinction. So how do you navigate an environment where you're instructed to maintain the status quo in the face of massive changes, and you know that standing still isn't an option?

That's the situation that we're tackling today in our conversation. How do you build momentum for change? When you're unexpectedly put into a position of leadership in less than ideal circumstances today, we have Camille Hibbler, superintendent of the Ferndale school district to walk us through how she tackled that exact situation.

al leader with a passion for [: 00:01:00

She is recognized for innovative approaches to education, emphasizing diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Camille's leadership is marked by her advocacy for social justice and her dedication to empowering youth. Ensuring that every student has the opportunity to thrive in a supportive and dynamic learning environment.

As an active professional, Camille is a dedicated member of the Delta Sigma Theta sorority. She has received many awards, including the Michigan Chronicles 40 under 40 award. She's married with two kids and that is where she is spending most of her time outside of work. So the short version of the bio is that Camille never sleeps.

Camille, welcome to the show.

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[00:01:52] Dr. Jim: Camille, super excited to have you on the show. And one of the things that I'm looking forward to in [00:02:00] this conversation is that we're marrying both the transformation conversation and a An adversity conversation into one, how do you pull off a transformation initiative when you're faced with a lot of adversity?

So it's going to be really interesting to tackle but before we dive into that I think what's going to be helpful for the listeners is to learn a little bit more about you Beyond the three sentences that I gave on the bio and especially What were some of those formative experiences that shaped your leadership philosophy as you went into the education space?

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Brilliant people that they [00:03:00] are through literacy. So that's where I began my journey. Very quickly. I recognize my leadership ability. I've always been very much fearless in the sense of going first, wanting to try something that works and giving it all I got. I wanted to be not just a teacher standing at the board, but I wanted to impact lives.

So that's like always what my approach has been. And leadership recognized that, and I started to be get lots of opportunities in leadership. So that took me down the path of be getting my administrator certification, master's in educational leadership and beginning my trajectory to principalship, which brought me to dean of students.

ns and to see the impact was [: 00:04:00

Doing robust Curriculum reviews and making sure that what is presented in front of students is quality which is what every student deserves. Once I got to my principal, first principalship of a first at a high school, then at a K 8 building I started. Loving more and seeing that I would get more impact in the educational space through the teachers.

So started my journey through Director of Curriculum, which brought me to Ferndale, which is where I am now.

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Earlier in your career, but as you're leading people, you might've had to change that approach. So walk us through what changes you had to make.

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The first go round and failed, made lots of assumptions. And I could have absolutely stayed and just, lived in my failure but learned from it and had the opportunity to get a second chance at it. And so one of the things that was critically important and shaped my leadership is just the relationship first mindset.

en door policy very open and [: 00:06:00

But I learned from it and since then, since those failures has definitely shaped how I lead very much.

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What were those triggering events or trigger events that started you thinking about, Hey, this might be a better path for me?

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But I saw things wrong and I wasn't able [00:07:00] to, I was ready to go first. I was ready to make change. I knew what needed to happen, but I simply did not have the authority for lack of better words, to go to the table and make the changes that I needed to. And I knew I had to get to the table and if I didn't have a seat there as Shirley Chisholm says, I'm going to bring my folding chair and just, create a seat for myself.

So I started just carrying that, that folding chair and just going to keep with that analogy keeping it with me and being prepared. To unfold it and pull up a seat as much as possible. But I had to get to those tables in order to do that. And I'm thankful that I had those opportunities given to me.

But there were definitely times where I had to demand them.

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Now you're leading a district. How are you cultivating that same bias of bias for action out of the educators that are in your district? So they too can impact the things that they see and bubble that up. So you're creating a much deeper leadership layer at all levels of the organization.

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If I allow voices, if I say voices matter and voices are at the table, that is my job to create those tables. And I think that I've done, I've started to do that here in [00:09:00] Ferndale and that's definitely a priority to continue to create those spaces.

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So I think that that offers a pretty interesting or good perspective of change that you're embedding throughout your district. Now, one of the things that You know, I opened the conversation with was that maintaining the status quo organization almost always guarantees failure. How is that relevant to your experience stepping into the district superintendency role?

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So it was really important to me as I was considering accepting the interim position to understand fully what my board of education would want from the role as an interim in the interim seat. And what was explained to me was that status quo. Please keep the ship floating. And as someone newly thrust into, or considering taking on that position, it was very comfortable.

And it, there was definitely something that I knew I could do. All right. But. What I realized once I got into it and there, it was almost immediately that there were some personnel change, there were things that were happening that I knew would not even allow for me to keep a status quo or or operate.

nnel, budgetary just meeting [: 00:11:00

So I, like I said, I think that just from almost day one, very early on, there were some decisions that I needed to make that I was comfortable. I knew they needed to be made, but it was almost essentially in opposition to what I was asked to do. So I found myself having to Have lots more conversations develop additional structures with my board of education to ensure that they were clear about some of the thinking that was going on.

eeded to make sure that they [: 00:12:00

Because I knew I was going in the opposite direction of what I was being asked to do, but I found them to be necessary and honestly was pivotal in my decision to go forward in the permanent seat because I saw the changes. That I was noticing be as impactful as possible. And I knew that they were the right ones.

I felt and I knew the data supported that those changes were necessary.

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And you just mentioned the data didn't support, the Keeping things afloat. We needed to make change. So tell us about how you [00:13:00] leverage data and what it showed that influenced your game plan going forward.

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Instead of making decisions based on feelings it was important that we had data at the table and policy at the table school, like our district policy to ensure that it is aligned with what some of the decisions or some of the asks that were coming in. So for an example that I can offer is there was some behavioral data at a particular building in our district that suggested that additional staffing was necessary.

he data or even if we hadn't [: 00:14:00

So not just looking at the behavioral data I actually experienced it by being on site seeing it in action. So using multiple data's data points You To guide our discussion versus as a secondary review, we were making decisions before we had even looked at the data. It was really important to have that in front of us all the time, not just when there was an issue or something that we were hearing.

on making. And we did we did [: 00:15:00

[00:15:05] Dr. Jim: One of the things that I'm wondering when you describe both the experiencing the impact in real time, plus having it being supported by data that you collected, That stuff doesn't happen overnight in terms of the impact elements. So how did it go on for so long? And it was only getting surfaced when.

You took over the role. Like it's hard to keep that stuff under wraps.

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Caring to even truly do that type of work, right? It's, it, I think it speaks to the priority I came in [00:16:00] with was truly caring about what is being brought to the table as a concern and understanding the impact that it would have in the building and in the district. So again, just, I had the mindset of prioritizing and elevating voices and I'm now that we're unpacking it and I'm seeing how it that drove all of those decisions and why I was able to prioritize to make sure that I was able to experience it.

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So when you, and there may be others that are missing, but this is what, what stands out in my mind. So when you have all of these stakeholders that you need to satisfy, and some of them might be in competition with each other or in opposition with each other, what did you, what or [00:17:00] who did you decide to prioritize first?

And how did you present that? To the board to get sign off.

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So to answer the question, because I already had that. My priority was the educators initially. It was I can't remember if it is a quote or if I just heard, like I heard it somewhere and it has always stuck with me, which was feed the teachers or eat the kids. And I was of that mindset. If I don't feed the teachers.

I will not see an impact. [: 00:18:00

So I wanted to learn more from an area that I didn't have as much information from. So that was my priority. I knew that if the kids are, if we are still student centered, I had to make impact first, With the educators. That was my priority.

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Impact and execute whatever initiative you throw out is going to fail. So that makes a lot of sense. How did you get that message across to the board [00:19:00] so that they're shifting from the maintain the status quo to, we need to act.

Mindset.

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Every communication, every interaction that I had, I was using it as a way to support the need, right? So in building, so in my weekly updates, I'm talking about the amount of teachers that I'm meeting with and some of the trends that are coming up from some of those conversations, right? If I have a one on one scheduled, a monthly one on one, I'm using that as a direct agenda item is to talking about the pulse of the district, right?

nt. And so when I got to the [: 00:20:00

I was able to really drive that home and it was not difficult at all. Cause I had already told the story,

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[00:20:42] Camille Hibbler: Great question. So I had to first, Ensure that I was crystal clear about our budget, right? So what grants are coming in, what grants are going away? Is this a fiscally responsible decision? And because I didn't want to add any personnel that I wouldn't be able to [00:21:00] sustain. This is not a one time issue.

It's not a one year. It will not be solved in one year, right? I wanted to if there was going to be an adjustment and needed to be So I started with making sure I was well versed in the budget. I understood what grants were coming and going, what the purposes of those grants, so that I can understand how I could fund this, right?

Something new. Where would the funding come from? How would I keep it? So that, of course, required time with our business office. Time understanding of even the historical, like the institutional knowledge in the department in the buildings that I was looking to make change. So I did my research.

I did my background. I had to make sure I understood that the finances was the biggest piece. If I'm being very honest, I don't think that any building administrator would argue with you about if they need additional personnel. So I didn't have to go over that hump. I think that I needed to ensure that it was sustainable.

ize Any and all platforms of [: 00:22:00

Before the change happened.

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And Now that funding has dried up, they just whack a bunch of people and lay them off. So it provides an interesting contrast when you describe that you wanted to develop a [00:23:00] sustainable hiring plan. So tell us a little bit more about why that was important to you from an overall talent strategy perspective.

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I saw more money than I've ever seen in K 12 education. But COVID, although still around, is not the same. It's not impacting K 12 education the way that it did before. I share that to say that we knew already that certain grants the biggest monies will be going away very soon. So I didn't, I already knew that going in.

o maintain it going into it? [: 00:24:00

So I didn't think that I didn't feel like. Of one year. I didn't think that in short, I didn't think it was transparent to just be able to talk about one year. That's in short. I think that if I was truly living by my goal of being as transparent as possible, it was an obligation to understand the long term impact around hiring.

That was literally how it was shaping the strategy, and it was rooted in the desire and the need to be as transparent as possible.

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[00:25:03] Camille Hibbler: So first before impact on the district, we had to make sure that we hired the right person. I know that there is a need, but we do not want to rush this interview process. So we did do some unique and added an extra phase in our interview process specific to this specific scenario to ensure that we were as clear as possible that this was the best fit person for this role.

So it was a little bit we examined some of our interview practices to ensure that we would get the best And I feel like we did. I truly do. And the immediate impact was teacher student wellness. What I saw almost immediately is The workload of an educator shifted because of this additional personnel that was added to this particular building, right?

pacted, you go home and have [: 00:26:00

I'm excited to say that it was an immediate impact in a lot of different ways, both so there was the immediate as well as the long term data that we were able to speak to. So it made me feel good to be able to highlight that, of course, to the board, to the community as much as possible.

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Is there any scenario where you think leaders of a district would be poorly served if they focus their energy towards, The well being of their educators and the well being of their students as first priorities and then everything else stacking in behind that.

What's the gap in thinking that way, if any?

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They will not perform. They cannot [00:28:00] perform. And I'll be honest, morally, you shouldn't want there. You shouldn't want that. But I think that the gap honestly is just competing priorities or just some, maybe just a particular belief system or leadership style. But I'll be honest again.

I just don't see any long term success. without prioritizing the people.

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And then what you saw didn't really align with what the board's wishes were. If there's another leader that is in a similar scenario as you. What would be your advice to them in terms of key things that they need to keep in mind as they chart their own path and [00:29:00] their district to drive results the way that you did?

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Are you ready to be able to articulate that in a way Are you ready to stand on that and pretty much bet your, bet, as much as you can on that, right? And if you are not, it will be critically important to craft that before stepping into a role of that nature. And then I would say And then finally, I think that just being very having the structures in place to keep yourself grounded [00:30:00] and being unapologetic about who you are, what you're willing to do And how you're going to communicate that.

So I think that kind of those three areas will be very important, but biggest piece, self reflection and being willing to manage up will be critically important.

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[00:30:23] Camille Hibbler: Follow me on Instagram at soup, Mrs. Hibbler. I also would welcome email And then also same Twitter handle as Instagram at soup, mrs. Hibbler and would love to continue the conversation.

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A recipe for success nine times out of 10. So if you're looking at all the things in front of you especially when you're trying to make an impact, when you weren't in a position where you expected to be in that seat in the first place, focus on teachers and students first, and that should serve you well.

The other piece that I think is really important about your story is the fact that you didn't rely on your gut field to define the action that you took. You relied on not only the data. And what that showed, but also what the experience you had living in the space informed you.

leader coming into the seat, [: 00:32:00

So those are the things that stood out to me in this conversation. I appreciate you sharing your story with us, Camille. For those of you who've been listening to this conversation, if you liked the discussion, please Make sure you leave us a review on your favorite podcast player. If you haven't already done so make sure you join our community.

You can find that at www. engagerocket. co slash HR impact, and then tune in next time where we'll have another leader sharing with us, the game changing insights that help them build a high performing team,