Scaffolding for Success: Building the Necessary Frameworks for Growth

Dr. Jim: [: 00:00:00

So you've got to be authentic and vulnerable to connect with your team. And you've got to have a servant's mindset. That's the position that Daniel Byrd makes. And he's a people leader who's on a mission to help leaders connect with their most authentic selves, learn how to bravely use their experiences and their vulnerability to connect with their teams and deliver great work while developing meaningful career and personal growth.

ant challenges. He's had the [: 00:01:00

He's currently the VP of people and culture at gum gum, Daniel Byrd. Welcome to the show.

Daniel Bird: Thanks so much for having me here, Jim. I'm excited to be part of it.

Dr. Jim: This is going to be a good conversation. And I think in the list of firsts I think you're the first Aussie we've had on the show. And this is the first time that I've opened the show with a slam on Jack Welsh. So there's two firsts that we've covered in the show. So welcome aboard.

I know that there's a lot more to you than the two sentences or three sentences, maybe that I explained in the bio. So what I'd like to do is take some time now. And have you share with the listeners, some things that we left out, some things that are going to be important for them to know about you.

That's going to inform this conversation .

k first of all, I, I started [: 00:02:00

I knew I didn't want to do accounting, but I wasn't terribly sure what I wanted to do next. And that led me into quite an exciting career in human resource management. But interestingly, I've kept some of the flavor of that accounting degree in. In through my career and you did mention it quickly, but I did very intentionally move out of HR for a period of time into operational business leadership.

ents of HR professionals who [: 00:03:00

Management was very low. I think it was something like 10 to 15 percent of HR professionals thought that was a worthwhile thing to do. And she made a very compelling case that morning. I went off and did that, and I'm really excited and glad that I did. I think it has helped me tremendously in working with leaders on making good decisions in the people's face.

Dr. Jim: How did that experience.

Working on the business side of an organization or an enterprise shape your people strategy going forward.

Daniel Bird: I think one of the things you learn when you step into the role of business leadership is everything you're taught is the science of leadership in HR, that there are technical things that are good to know. You know why we want to have one on ones, why we should issue performance warnings when things are going wrong.

hat performance warning, you [: 00:04:00

I'm no longer holding the technical science textbook on how leadership should work, and I'm much more comfortable sitting with leaders in the space of the art of leadership as well.

you do the day after what's [: 00:05:00

Daniel Bird: Yeah, it usually starts well before the PIP is issued is my answer to that. And it's about how you set that relationship up. Now, there are wonderful thought leaders in this space, both Kim Scott, who wrote a great book called Radical Candor and Brene Brown, who's actually wrote a number of different books now on, on leadership and how that can translate to the workplace around vulnerability is that often the reason leaders don't do the performance improvement plan or the warning is because despite being in a position of power, they've not done the groundwork to build trust in that relationship with that employee. So that employee isn't doubting for a second that despite you writing down clear performance expectations, that you're ultimately on their side and you want them to win and you want them to be here.

of the legwork when someone [: 00:06:00

Dr. Jim: The through line that I pick up from what you're saying is, Pips, just like whatever is on your annual review, should never be a surprise. If that's a surprise, you failed as a leader in the eyes of the employee. That's a really good lesson early in the conversation.

So let's dive into what we're going to talk about. When you look at your current role what's the accomplishment that you're most proud of?

th of those acquisitions and [: 00:07:00

At the same time, I'm trying to be more mature organization and have more mature systems and processes that allow us to integrate because when you go from a small nimble startup into a multinational company those things aren't automatically there. And, we don't have buying an agreement from everyone to start with.

Dr. Jim: When you make that transition going from small nimble startup to international player That's grown through a combination of organic and acquisition based growth How did you pull that off from an integration perspective across all of those geographies?

when Your DNA is probably still pretty much a startup guy.

going to meet people face to [: 00:08:00

Perhaps working more efficiently or doing things differently to your company. And then knowing that the beauty of not having everything set up and not being super bureaucratic and processes established is that you can be nimble is that you can take the best parts from both organizations and start to build and integrate that together into a, a best case scenario for the new integrated organization

now. But when you think about: 2024

Daniel Bird: we're Bringing together the culture work that we're doing under a program called connected gum gum. We think that's getting to a mature place and having a terrific impact on the team. Our next [00:09:00] real focus in the next couple of years will be really around leadership development in particular frontline leaders and the impact that they have on the day to day experience of team members around the world.

And so really investing internally without team with my team. On how we can make a difference there for leaders. In most cases, they have a lot of the tools that leaders will need to be effective leaders. We haven't probably done as well as we could have done in making sure I know how to use them and how to use them well.

So I think that would be the thing. If we could really make a difference there, then we know we would make a big difference for the organization.

Dr. Jim: Why the emphasis on first time leaders?

Daniel Bird: What we know is that most people who get promoted into first time leadership roles are being promoted because they're really good at their job. They know the answers to the challenges that team's likely to face. And the natural inclination is to answer those questions is when people come to them with.

m about something, then they [: 00:10:00

Actually requires a skill set that needs to be trained and developed. And so we think that those folks are leading the most number of people at our company. And so we think we can have the greatest impact by sitting with them and developing those skills. And they've told us over and over again that they're very hungry for it.

Dr. Jim: You said something really interesting there. Especially when it comes to the emphasis on first time leaders.

When we're talking about why so many organizations are struggling with finding people that want to work for them, or just overall engagement on the team, people being dialed in at the team level, how is that related to the level of effort that you spend on developing your first time managers to be effective?

you a quick story. Actually, [: 00:11:00

I asked one of the team members, how's it going today? Tell me, what does that, what does a good day for you look like? And his response to me surprised me, but was also relatively profound for me, which was, I'm having a good day when you're having a good day. And he said, and I laughed with him. I was like, oh, that's a good answer.

And he said, no, I mean that even though you're another state away, even though there's a reporting line in between us, I know whether you're having a good day in Sydney or not. And I feel that right here in my day to day through the interactions that I have with the people in the team. And that for me was super interesting because I like to study human behavior and because primarily my work is in human resources around the impact that a leader can have.

t to them. That kind of sits [: 00:12:00

And that led me to some other work and some other insights around how, as a leader, you can start to have a productive impact and a positive impact on the team members that report to you and to their teams as well. And 1 of the things that I spoke about with my career coach was actually an article written by Peter Drucker, I think, around effective executives and.

d do things, but in terms of [: 00:13:00

That creates a sense of anxiety because they have 15 things that they need to do. But the truth is we have 15 things to do every year, and we're probably not that effective at getting them done. And if you did one thing a month strategically to really make ground on and focus on and execute on. Did at the end of the year, you would have 12 things really well executed that you can be really proud of.

And for most leaders, they would kill for a year like that.

I

Dr. Jim: want to draw out your opinion on one particular aspect and it, and you mentioned it earlier on when your team member said I'm having a good day when you're having a good day it locked in a realization for you that the level of impact that you have.

neath you, regardless of how [: 00:14:00

They have a certain viewpoint. That seems to be in stark contrast to what you articulated, where do you think that sort of thinking steers leaders wrong?

Daniel Bird: Another way of asking that is why should we care whether the team members, a few people below us are having a good day? Does that mean our business is running more efficiently or effectively? And what we know from pretty recent research that I couldn't point to right now, so don't ask me where it comes from, but rings true to me is that our direct manager has as much impact on our mental health as our romantic partner.

about the amount of time you [: 00:15:00

Organization is going to be 100 percent or more, even more than they expect to ever deliver. Is that going to happen in an environment where people feel like they're having a bad day over and over again? And the chances are that is not the case. And there are some things, I love the idea, at least in the Jeff Bezos mentality of it's always day one.

I love some of that mentality, but a lot of the. Traditional thinking on leadership really does ignore this mental health aspect and the psychological safety aspect, which is critical for having employees performing at an elite level.

g in an abusive relationship.[: 00:16:00

If we're going to move forward with this people centric approach with a clear eye towards the impact that you as a leader have on your organization. What are the things that you need to be doing intentionally to build that sort of culture ?

Daniel Bird: I have a new mantra for my team this year, which is structure is enabling that. Just because you're a senior leader or somebody that sits at the senior table and you get to decide with full autonomy what you spend your time on and what you execute as you start to build layers within your organization, there are folks below you that will need that direction that will need to know where the boundaries on that.

when they should come to me.[: 00:17:00

And that requires some thinking around systems and process and structure and then having that communicated and then constantly talking about that. And for me, and certainly for this year, building that sense of structure, thinking about how people are working, particularly if they're in a remote environment, they're just sitting there in their house deciding what to do next and what email to reply to and, what person to go and meet with they need to have a clear sense of their role and what they're trying to achieve.

Dr. Jim: just said a dirty word on this conversation and that's that's structure. And the reason why it's a dirty word for me is I feel like you sold me out because here I'm thinking you're a startup guy. You like being nimble and agile and now you start talking about structure and I'm come on, man.

cepting of that shift, which [: 00:18:00

But you're going to have people like me who believe in frameworks, hate structure.

Daniel Bird: Yeah, they want to break stuff. I think that there are ways of putting the best way I can describe it as scaffolding in place, which is structure that is clear, but held lightly. If you're in a startup environment, then there's a terrific book called Traction by Gino Wichman, which is like a terrific book in setting up an out of the box system or structure.

That says, Hey, you don't need to solve everything, but how are we going to know what the key issues at this organization are for the executive team? How do we know what the scorecard is on how that organization is performing? Green, orange, red, just are we doing well this month or are we not doing well this month?

and more effective. And I've [: 00:19:00

That does provide some structure in terms of, I'm assuming revenue is a metric you might want to look at. I'm assuming employee turnover might be, what are the things that point to organizational health, but it doesn't necessarily mean that those things can't change over time. What the targets are or what the metrics are that you consider important to the organization.

And so this is what I would call like light structure. Again, it enables the folks below you to know what's important. But it doesn't stifle you in a time of innovation or an industry that's trying to move quickly and change.

Dr. Jim: Your point about scaffolding and my my version of that is framework. I'm a big framework person because it still gives me a box to play in and it's a pretty big box. It's when it goes beyond that, where you're. Know your role and stay in this narrow band where people like me have big issues.

p in those points, how to be [: 00:20:00

Daniel Bird: The first one talks to your previous point, which is it's an evolution, not a revolution,. If you go too much structure too quickly. Everyone paralyzes and freezes up, but there are things in your organization that can just be systemized and set up and can run things like expense reimbursements.

We shouldn't be working out how that happens and how that works. Every time someone has a receipt that should just be set and forget. So there's a bunch of stuff that you can set and forget. And a lot of that is like foundational and hygiene type things that just make it an easier place to work before you start building on top of that.

w do you eat an elephant one [: 00:21:00

Now, I work for an advertising company, and so we care deeply. About how things look and how they're presented. I was overwhelmed and intimidated when I started just looking at the PowerPoint presentations or decks that they have internally just for internal meetings because everything was polished and beautiful.

And my PowerPoint skills were nowhere near. The level that I thought was going to be required to do well here, but even our people programs, we're packaging that we're polishing that we're thinking about what the end user is going to be walking away thinking, feeling and saying about that thing. And we're very fortunate enough to be able to work with internal designers as well on our people programs.

And that's main meant that the work that we do, we're incredibly proud of because it is very beautiful as well as incredibly effective and it's well received by the team as well.

ly great conversation. We've [: 00:22:00

Through mergers and acquisitions. So that adds a really unique bit of nuance into how you lead in the, in those environments,. If somebody is out there listening and wants to get started, how do they even start? What are the things that you would suggest they pay attention to and put into motion right away

becomes available, take the [: 00:23:00

Second of all, understand how businesses work from a systems and process perspective. Even if you're in a startup, understanding the ultimate goal, which for every startup is tremendous growth and either an IPO or an exit at some point is understand what you're trying to get to. And we talked about traction as a framework and it's a terrific one.

But it's not the only one. There's lots of them out there, and you can become a practitioner and helping leaders facilitate that process for them and themselves and then getting really clear about your messaging to your team about which way the company is heading and how you're going to package that for them so that it's digestible and so that they can take the general direction away and everything that they're doing.

we can say right now that we [: 00:24:00

Dr. Jim: If People want to get in touch with you and continue the conversation. What's the best way for them to do that?

Daniel Bird: Yeah I'm available on LinkedIn like most people these days and occasionally drop a note on Medium as well on a blog. They're the two kind of main ways to get in touch.

Dr. Jim: I appreciate you hanging out with us. When I think about the conversation that we've had, there's a few things that stand out that I want to highlight. I think one of the things that every leader listening to this show, regardless of what level they're at, needs to be.

Keenly aware of the impact that they have. On people that are widely distributed and separated from their immediate sphere of influence. And I think that level of impact is something that should inform how you show up on a day in, day out basis. Because like you mentioned early in the conversation.

uild. A high performing team [: 00:25:00

So as a leader, it's important that you put in the time and effort to get that foundation laid so that any of those difficult conversations that you have down the road don't Come out of the blue. Don't make your people feel like they've been ambushed and you're still operating and showing up in a way that it's demonstrated to them that you still want them to win.

that helped them build high [: 00:26:00