The Power of Productive Confrontation: How to Foster Healthy Conflict in the Workplace
Summary:
Alfred Ishak, VP of People Strategy is an optimistic and consultative insights professional, and joins Dr. Jim to discuss how to build a culture that encourages productive confrontation. They emphasize the importance of trust, vulnerability, and accountability in creating an environment where employees feel safe to voice their opinions and challenge one another. They also explore the role of leaders in modeling these behaviors and the commercial benefits of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. Overall, they provide practical strategies for fostering a culture of productive confrontation in organizations.
Key Takeaways:
- Building leaders at all organizational levels encourages a bias for action while maintaining accountability and psychological safety.
- Effective leaders nurture an environment where trust is the foundation that allows for productive confrontation and honest dialogues.
- Vulnerability and the ability to ask for help are portrayed as strengths that contribute to a cohesive team dynamic.
- Diversity and inclusion are not just socially imperative but bear significant commercial benefits and should reflect the customer base.
- Small moments of authentic interaction can have a profound impact on establishing trust and community within the workplace.
Chapters:
0:00
Transforming HR Through Consumer Research and Global Insights
4:42
Empowering Junior Leaders Through Balance and Support
9:31
Building Trust to Foster Team Innovation
Fostering Trust and Accountability in Organizational Leadership
Mastering the Art of Receiving Feedback
Fostering Vulnerability in Professional Environments
Frameworks Defining Leadership and Culture in Organizations
Advocating for Inclusive Workplaces Amidst Sociopolitical Challenges
Diversity Drives Commercial Success in Global Markets
Cultivating Productive Confrontation in Organizational Culture
Connect with Dr. Jim: linkedin.com/in/drjimk
Connect with CT: linkedin.com/in/cheetung
Connect with Alfred Ishak: linkedin.com/in/alfred-ishak
Music Credit: Shake it Up - Fesliyanstudios.com - David Renda
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Mentioned in this episode:
Engaging Leadership Intro
Engaging Leadership Outro
Transcript
So let me welcome him to the show to tackle this issue. So what's his story. He describes himself as an optimistic and consultative insights professional with more than 15 years of experience in consumer insights, market research. And analytics. He brings a unique blend of authentic leadership, customer centric strategy, and a disruptive growth mindset to drive organizational change and operational results.
elling yourself a little bit [:[00:01:03] Alfred Ishak: Thank you so much. Really happy to be here.
[:[00:01:31] Alfred Ishak: So my background is mostly in consumer research. Consulting client services type work. We I belong to a company right now called Human Aid. I've been with this company for quite a while. And that's what we do. We provide consulting services to global large brands that you all know. More and more through my career and journey here, I've taken on exceeding responsibilities that are more people oriented. I do not have a traditional HR background. Rather I'm [00:02:00] bringing a knowledge of our business, a knowledge of how we work.
My experience from being on the front lines of that work to HR and to people's strategy, and that's what I do now. We are a global company, so one really interesting part of I guess my perspective these days is it's informed by how, How we look at people's strategy and HR and other countries in Europe and in APEC.
And I think there's a lot to learn, a lot of cultural differences, obviously, but a lot we can learn from each other as well.
[:Tell us a little bit more about how both of those things have impacted your people strategy from a philosophy and execution perspective.
[:What are our clients trying to do with this information? What decisions need to be made? Who are the stakeholders in that decision? I think prepared me really well for how to look at people challenges at an organization like ours. I like to, think that when we're confronted with a challenge we, really get down to root causes and what are some of the desired outcomes that we need?
iance and in regulation and, [:[00:04:08] Dr. Jim: You posed a really interesting question that I think has some practical application for some of our audience. And let me set the stage a little bit. One of the common challenges that exist within organizations of any type is that when you're a first time manager or an early manager, you often struggle.
With doing the things that good leaders do. And in fact, you're often pulled back into the mode of trying to solve problems when something gets bubbled up to you. I'd like you to connect the dots between that scenario and the question that you asked, what is the end goal here? How can asking that question better prepare?
Early or junior managers for success from a leadership perspective.
[:The people around them need to be held accountable to finding solutions themselves. So I think it's really getting back to those two kind of angles on it. One is understanding root causes of situations. Are the, people involved in an issue, in a situation that might seem a little problematic are they aware of all of the variables, factors that kind of lead to the conditions that created that situation?
situation. I feel safe that [:Cause we all make mistakes and we all take missteps and often you have to make some missteps to get to where you need to go. So it's the information. It's really understanding why we're in the situation we're in, what are the conditions and how are they created? And then on the flip side, what do we hope to get out of this?
What are some of the outcomes that we need as a group of people, as an organization, and are they, do they feel safe to try to get there? So we, you need to create those conditions in your organization. And that's where it gets into psychological safety and trust and vulnerability, which I think we'll get to.
But, yeah, I think you need both sides of that equation to be able to get all levels of leaders. step in and take hold of situations.
[:Another thing that you mentioned is that leaders need to play the role where they're helping to connect the dots between what's happening and what the action should be with their people. And the other thing that you mentioned, the third thing that you mentioned is that leaders have a responsibility to empower.
When you mention those things, and you pair it with the phrase bias for action, and I love the bias for action phrase because it's part of my sort of DNA. But there's a risk there. The risk is that leaders might be tempted to jump in too soon. So what are some of the things that you've done To coach and mentor early career leaders.
So they're not acting too quick quickly while still creating the space for all the things that we talked about just earlier.
[:So it's a balance. I think what we try to do is talk about, yeah, there's, no reason to react in a rash way, in a hasty way, but rather. Let's not be inhibited by fear of making a mistake or by, bringing in too many voices, asking for too much, reassurance, right? So it's trying to find that sweet spot.
How do you coach that in somebody that is a bit more junior and might not have the quote unquote war wounds? It's tough, but I do think it relies on trust, . That person needs to feel like this organization, these people around me, they have my back if they're, if something doesn't go exactly right here.
We'll be able to [:So I think it's rooted in trust. And it's not easy to build trust and it's not an overnight thing like that. That's a long game, but I do believe it's rooted in building that trust.
[:One of the big [00:10:00] complaints that we often hear about is Especially from senior leaders and executive leaders is that we're getting constantly pulled off into firefighting mode. I often ask the question, why is that happening? What's happening underneath you that prompts you to rush in? Maybe there needs to be more of a focus on those foundational elements of trust building.
So you're creating this space for your people to take those challenges head on and work through it. When I, opened the show, I made note that there is often a culture or a hesitance for organizations and leaders to productively confront.
How does that tie into some of the things that you've learned through your career that really. Unlocked your ability to build some great teams.
[:But it was the realization that without that underlying trust, those teams are really unable to meet their full potential. I think you see it in what you're bringing up, Jim, which is, yeah, conflict, debate. Those things are not a bad thing. They're really productive if they are confronted and without trust, without the willingness to be vulnerable with one another on the team.
You don't really get into it and yeah, bring to the surface new ideas, be willing to challenge one another when things aren't going exactly right. To really hash things out in a way that. The final product, the final result is part of this collective effort of all of these minds and talents coming together.
So I think that's [:They get the most out of the people around them and you can see the fulfillment, the personal and collective success that's achieved. So, that's the thing I keep going back to is building that underlying trust on a team is really even more important than the right skill sets and the right talent on that team.
[:It's like you have to be able to confront and debate and iterate from that, and that sounds great in theory. Of course we want to confront and debate and do all of that stuff. The challenge becomes how do you do it in a way where you're not creating a toxic environment, both from the leader level.
And the follower level. I'd like your input into how you pull that off in a practical way and create that type of environment.
[:So people like that, so HR professionals, people, professionals really need to make an effort to build some authentic trust across our organization so that they become trusted arbiters, mediators of situations and that they role model those types of things. Behaviors as well. So if you're seen at your organization as, Hey, there's a person I can trust.
I can go to them with this type of issue. They're not going to judge me. They're not going to talk to people about it. That's so important to build that one to one connection, really trusted relationship with people. And if they have that, if they have that, even in, small interactions, even in, lesser instances that can help breed that type of behavior as they get into smaller groups and larger teams.
cro level. It's really about [:are open to constructive criticism, vulnerable when things aren't going exactly right, truthful about the feedback that you hear and receive and try to apply that to the way that you go about your work, then you're going to have a whole organization who sees that and says, I can do it too. I can be vulnerable.
I can be authentic. I can listen for feedback. So that's more like an air war of really trying to get an organization to think this way and to behave this way. I as, with so many things, it really does start at the top. You get those top levels of leaders and your, team leaders, your department heads behaving this way.
thinking [:[00:16:06] Dr. Jim: one of the things that has me wondering is. We're, all people and we, all receive messages in all sorts of different ways. So from a practical perspective, if you're on the receiving end of some sort of message, what's your advice to that person that's on the receiving end of maybe what they perceive as something that's not a nice message, how they actually get the real intent behind the message.
[:So I think [00:17:00] we, as again, as people leaders, it's important for us to at all levels of our organization, equip people. To one, understand that our coworkers, our teammates, our clients, everybody has their own background, has their own context that they're coming to a certain relationship or certain situation with and allow for some grace, .
We're all not going to behave exactly right in every moment. But also, personally, I really have a lot of control over the way that I react. To what I hear from others and what I sense from others, . So if, I'm able to, hear, listen for feedback, listen, even for the criticism, the hard stuff, and maybe sometimes it feels a little bit unfair.
yeah, I could do that better [:And that's all I'm going to take away from this. I'm not going to take anything personal. I'm not, I'm definitely not going to let it hurt my confidence. Rather, what I just heard makes me even better, makes me even stronger. So it's tough, right? Because you can't control The behavior, the thinking, the words that come out of other's mouth, but you can really control your reaction to things.
You, you have a ton of agency on how you interpret and internalize what you hear and what and that's where, I think if we put our efforts into equipping our people to be resilient in that way, I think it pays off.
[:So when you operate from that space, if you're receiving a message, In a certain kind of way. It's your responsibility to ask what the meaning is behind the message. When I heard you say this is how I took it. Is that how you intended? Or was there something else that you're trying to get into? And that ties back into your earlier comment about leaders need to model behavior model, what good looks like.
reaction to what's happening [:And that's critical for. Everybody to understand is that as much as possible, you need to choose your attitude. Are you going to react in a way that in the future is going to shut down conversations like this? Or is your reaction to what's happening going to foster more conversations where everyone gets better as a result?
So that was another important thing. And the third thing that you said that, that struck me as you were saying it If someone has the courage to say something to you, it might not be delivered in the way that you prefer, but it's your responsibility to go find the truth in it. If they have the courage to say this stuff out loud, there's something there that's on you to fix.
his stuff that we're talking [:And that's not natural as much as it happens to be a buzzword in leadership and HR circles. It's not just something that we'll automatically go through the world with. How do you do that? How do you create this space to allow for vulnerability? And more importantly, how do you get to the point where you're in an organization where it's acceptable to show up and lead that way?
[:That you need to be vulnerable to be able to do that, hear that and reciprocate that. And creating vulnerability [00:22:00] in a workplace is tough. It's tough in every relationship,. If we think of our, yeah, like a romantic or or, friend relationships, I can think very clearly of the friends that I'm most vulnerable with and the ones that, yeah, there might be some guards or defenses up for whatever reason.
And if you can't do that in a personal environment. With people that have been in your life maybe for a really long time, asking folks to do it in a professional work context, especially nowadays, a virtual work context is difficult. So I think number one is honor that it's not easy,.
But I would say again, not to belabor the point of it starts from the top, but role modeling that behavior is really important. If, staff or team members see a leader being vulnerable and authentically taking accountability for something, saying clearly I need help with this thing.
ot. This isn't something I'm [:I'm sure, Jim, you've participated in a lot of this type of thing, but, An artifact, endeavor, or possibly like a defining moment activity where everybody on a team shares, a major event that happened in their lives and how it shaped them and, Why it lives on in the way that they do things today,.
in spots. If it feels really [:I would bet that in most instances, in most organizations that you want to be at, You are going to be met with a lot of positivity from that type of brave vulnerability. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
[:So we've talked about why it's important to have a culture. Where you can productively confront. And we've talked about some of the things that you can do to create the environment for that. I want to take it one [00:25:00] step further. If somebody is listening in the audience and they want to actually make this a real part of their environment, how do they do that?
[:Here at Humanae And I'm sure a lot of consulting agencies, we're a custom agency, but we have a lot of frameworks. We have a lot of frameworks that, we've put a ton of desk research into and a lot of trial and error into, And while each situation is unique, each organization is unique, there's something to starting with a framework.
ork that really helps define [:It's, always evolving, but it's something that really helps set the stage for what we expect from all levels of leaders. And we believe here that. Everybody's a leader. No matter what chair you sit in, no matter what your role is at the company, you have an opportunity to lead somebody or something every day.
So, that helps, set some guardrails for what it looks like to show up in that way every day as a leader. So I would say have a framework, have something that you can rely on, That brings to life a bit of your culture and the expectations you have for people. One quick example from our leadership model that fits into this is, one of the main principles is fostering an inclusive workplace, .
diverse voices are heard and [:If you have those things, if you have an inclusive workplace and people feel safe to voice their opinion, people feel like, hey, my, my perspective is appreciated. It's seen as unique and it's understood that way. You are going to have people that are more apt to be vulnerable with one another because there's some real dialogue, some real exchange that's happening.
[:That creates a level of transparency for how people and everybody within the [00:28:00] organization should behave. And I think one of the things that I'd like to get your input on is this, oftentimes, there's a, segment of, the population when they hear anything that's in and around the topic of DEIB, they automatically turn off their, listening ears and think it's just Soft, fluffy stuff or whatever they think, where the data actually shows that if you want to drive more positive business impacts, that's got to be a central element of your business.
So my question to you is you're advising or advocating that needs to be a central part of how the business operates. What have you done to win over those folks who are likely turning off as soon as they hear mention of any of this stuff,
[:To where, yeah, I think we might be getting a bit shy at addressing these types of issues. Because yeah, maybe it makes some feel uncomfortable. It, there is like a large segment of our population that is turned off by the dialogue, but it's something that we cannot back away from. Because exactly why you're saying there's real tangible evidence that an organ, an organization is.
Better if it's diverse, if it's inclusive, if it's equitable with its people. So I just wanted to say that first. There is something though to meeting people where they are. And one thing that we've learned here at humanate and we have yeah, an entire offering around inclusive insights, is that diversity, Although depending on who the audience is, might automatically think racial or ethnic or cultural diversity, maybe sometimes religious diversity.
But there's so many [:To lift an entire organization, not just a small subset of an organization. So I think there's some education needed and it can be done in a way that it is really consumable by whoever the audience is. But then. The other thing is, yeah, the real investment, seeing the leaders at an organization are willing to put real time, real resources towards these initiatives, because it is believed that our organization will be more successful because of it.
le results that are that are [:And in our world, Because we are a customer centric consultancy. And part of our job, a major part of our job is raising the voices of all consumers so that these giant brands can see the diversity of their marketplace. We need to be equipped to do that and how can we be equipped to do that if we are not living by the principles that help create inclusivity, that help foster diversity.
There is a real commercial benefit. to this stuff. you need to, if you need to forget all of the political and social stuff, even though that's so important to you, there's a real commercial benefit to this work as well.
[:That makes no sense. So I think that aspect, if we're purely being capitalistic about it, that's a no brainer as far as a call to action, why organizations should be. Yeah, doubling down on this versus shying away from it. Alfred we, covered a lot of ground in this conversation.
s acceptable to productively [:[00:33:02] Alfred Ishak: It's not easy work and there's a lot that goes into it. But, I think Some of the basics and some of maybe the necessities of this journey, is the idea that it really does start with role modeling. So if you can get your leadership team, you can get your top level department heads and team leaders to, to react to this idea and to see the value in it.
And to understand like the overall benefits from, creating that trust and vulnerability that will lead to productive. Debate and will allow people to productively confront issues, conflict. I think that is the biggest and strongest, basis for creating an environment that you're hoping for.
is, I think is more directly [:If we can. example that in moments that count for people, then you're going to have, an effect where that person will be more likely to also be vulnerable, to also be real for the people around them. So, really take stock in those opportunities and take advantage of micro moments when they come up.
te or people are moving back [:But also like the world around us is yeah there's a lot of. Things that divide us. There's a lot of noise out there that clouds people's heads and, makes them maybe distrustful or, coming to a relationship very much on the defensive with some guards put up. The workplace should be a community.
It should be one of those places that people get a little bit of refuge from that noise. So if collectively we can understand that we all need that, that we would all benefit from our workplace truly being a community, and that doesn't mean everybody has to, Hang out with each other after work and on the weekends and go to each other's weddings.
n goal. And we're exhibiting [:And just be there for each other and realize that there could be a real community within your organization for the people that work there.
Really good stuff, Alfred.
[:What's the best way for them to get in touch with you?
[:It's alfred at [00:37:00] we are humanate. com.
[:I appreciate you hanging out with us and sharing your insight. When I say that this conversation is packed with a lot of things that are actionable, I'm not lying. I think every five minutes or so, there was a new takeaway that I think it's important for listeners to walk away with, but there's a few things that I want to highlight before we sign off.
One of the key things that you mentioned when it comes to building a culture and an organization where you can productively confront, and this is underrated, is that you want to build a business that reflects your customer base, because if you have that level of representation within your organization that allows the space for different ideas and perspectives to live in those spaces, if you don't have that, You're not going to create an environment where it's acceptable to have a different point of view.
flect your customer base and [:Part of how you model. What good looks like is being in control of how you react to the feedback that you're getting good or bad. I think it's critically important for leaders to actually accept.
The amount of courage that it takes for somebody to give them less than positive feedback. And rather than react negatively to it, it's the responsibility of leaders. To find the truth in what's being said and that's how you model what good looks like. There's so much more in this conversation That I think is valuable, but I wanted to highlight those couple of things for our listeners Appreciate you hanging out with us for those of you who have tuned in the conversation If you liked the discussion leave us a review join the hr impact community at www.
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