Walking the Talk: Leading by Example in Trust and Communication

CheeTung Leong: [: 00:00:00

My name is CT from Engage Rocket and it's my great pleasure to have with me today in our studio to talk about this. Erika Rooney. Erika is the Chief People Officer of Blue Acorn ICI and she's also the author of a book called Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors and I can't wait to read it.

Thanks so much for joining us in the studio today,

Erica Anderson Rooney: Erika. Oh, thank you. I'm pumped to be here.

CheeTung Leong: Tell us a little bit more about Blue Acorn ICI your role there as Chief People Officer. And then I want to dive a little bit into your book as well.

Erica Anderson Rooney: So I'm the Chief People Officer at Blue Acorn ICI, and we are a customer experience company.

So what we do is we help Fortune 500 companies rethink how they do business. It's a really exciting tech company. We are relatively small in size. We have about 300, 350 people and we are owned and operated by our parent company, Infosys and we were intentionally acquired by them about three years ago.

To really [: 00:01:00

CheeTung Leong: Perfect, and tell us whatever you can about the book that you're writing. What inspired you to write it, and what can readers look forward to?

Erica Anderson Rooney: So I never thought I would write a book, to be very honest. I did not think that was up my alley. But I have my own podcast called From now to next where I talk with women about all of the what I call sticky floors, which are the limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors.

So imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear, burnout. And how did they. Really take notice of what those sticky floors were and break free from them so that they could shatter the glass ceiling. So I talk with a lot of very successful women across all industries and just learn from them, hear what they did, what was holding them back.

many patterns after talking [: 00:02:00

So it's a really great book for women to read it. They will read it. They will see themselves in many of the chapters. And it's also a really great book for men to read so that they can learn how to better advocate for women in the workplace and how they can show up differently for women so that we can reach gender equality in both pay and in leadership a lot sooner than we hope.

CheeTung Leong: It sounds like a really great read. Today we're really gonna maybe we can weave that in a little bit around how we trust and communicate in the workplace. But one of the big things that we're going to talk about today in terms of building elite teams is how do these teams build trust and how do they communicate that trust?

So what have you observed in your experience as some of the challenges around doing so?

think the biggest challenge [: 00:03:00

And then there are other people who are on the complete flip side, where you need to earn their trust through your actions in your everyday You know how you show up every day and that is how they earn the trust. So you have to recognize that you may trust very differently from somebody else and that they may not trust you right off the bat.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but so often we just assume that everyone is like us and everyone trusts the way that we do. And that's not the case.

CheeTung Leong: I really like that. So having that two styles of trust building. And being able to recognize which pattern each individual on your team has is something that doesn't come across very naturally to, to people.

bers do this? And, when the, [: 00:04:00

Erica Anderson Rooney: Yeah, you really have to harness your power of emotional intelligence is what I tell people and you have to open your ears and listen to what they are saying and how they are saying it.

For example, someone like myself, it just trusts automatically until that trust is broken. I very much say, here's what you need to do and how you need to do it. Just come to me if you have any problems. Whereas somebody else who may, you may need to earn their trust. They may approach you in more of a Hey, check in with me every step of the way, let me know how things are going.

And once I get used to how you work and how you show up, then they transform what they are saying into more of here's your project, go do it and come back. And again, I want to stress that it's not necessarily a bad thing one way or the other. Both have pros, both have cons, but it's really in the language and the words that people use and that they choose to speak that will give you that insight into how they trust.

what have you seen in terms [: 00:05:00

Erica Anderson Rooney: So if you don't communicate very well, number one, how, what, like if you trust off the jump. So for example, again, I trust from the jump and let's say I give bob a project.

And I say, here you go, Bob, run with it. If I don't really read between the lines and check in with Bob to see how everything's going, Bob may assume that he can't come to me with problems or questions. And I just assume it's done because he hasn't come back to me to let me know. So it could go really wrong.

If I am working with somebody who doesn't really have that psychological safety built in to raise their hand and say, Hey, I need a little bit of extra help. And that's why it's so important to also recognize how you trust, recognize how other people trust, but then tap into your emotional intelligence to know that you don't know everything about your employees, especially if they're new.

Because if you don't open up [: 00:06:00

CheeTung Leong: Actually, I like that example that you raised. And in fact, I'm thinking in many cases I've personally encountered the opposite, where the boss checks in a little bit too much.

And as an employee, you might feel like this boss is micromanaging me when in actual fact, the boss really just needs that level of assurance that okay, that line of communication is open. And in fact, they might even be thinking I'm being helpful. Like I'm offering my help at every stage of the process rather than, checking in and making sure, but this can be so easily misread.

Erica Anderson Rooney: That's why it's so important to over communicate. And to say, I'm asking because I want to make sure that you don't need anything from me, or I think I'm being helpful. Tell me if it's too much. So very often when I have a lot of my HR team meetings, I will propose something that I think is a good idea, but then I always open it up and say, look, this is open for debate.

he chief people officer. You [: 00:07:00

And if everybody's good, we can move on. However, if there are some kinks or some hiccups, we can work through those together.

CheeTung Leong: That's such a fine line to tread though. Because I can imagine that it's really tricky to be genuine about getting that feedback from your team. Because I can also imagine their bosses who pay lip service to that and say, yeah, here's my opinion.

Here's my point of view. What do you think? Everybody says what they see in the boss, like, all right, great. I'm going to do what we, what I'm going to say anyway. And then and then on the other end of the spectrum, you have the boss who appears very insecure about their decision because they keep coming back to it and, checking, are you guys okay with what I'm saying?

So how do you find as a leader yourself, threading that needle, finding that middle ground? And is it just a lot of repeated interactions with the team?

: It takes time, number one, [: 00:08:00

So you have to build your trust individually before you can build it collectively as a group because you as a leader, you need to have that individually with each of your team members, but then you also need to foster it within each other by putting together group projects where they can work cross functionally and collaborate together and then come back to you as a group.

And once you establish that, okay, we trust you and you trust us. Then you can really start to move through those things a lot faster. Now, one thing I'll share a story with you. I am very big in take care of your personal business, whatever that is, whether you have kids or a dog or doctor's appointments, or, you want to just go for a run in the middle of the day.

e than an hour, let me know. [: 00:09:00

And anytime that they would step away. They would feel the need to ping me, Hey, I'm going to be gone for 15 minutes. And I'm like, why are telling me 15 minutes? Or somebody would say, I have a sick kid. I have to go and pick them up and I'll be like on and off, but it's okay. I'm going to get everything done.

And they would over explain. And it took them seeing me actually show up and saying that's fine. Go deal with your kids. Let me know if I can help. Let me know if I can pick up any of the slack. And then also me reciprocating that with, Hey, I have a sick kid. Can you guys pick up this slack for me?

Where they saw that we really are a team and we do have each other's backs when things go crazy.

st I speak about this, maybe [: 00:10:00

I have that same level of flexibility with the team, but when I'm struggling with something personally, I may not be as open about it and I try to hold it in, if I'm sick I generally try to show up and still do what I need to do. And. And I think that might send a wrong signal sometimes as a leader, that maybe if, if CT is sick and he's working, then, oh, if I'm sick, I better be working as well.

And that's so easy to forget sometimes as a leader.

Erica Anderson Rooney: It is. And I got onto my CEO that I used to work with one time was out on parental leave. He had his partner at home. He also had a nanny. So he had a little bit of time to log in and check emails and he would send emails. And I was like, look, you can send me emails, but you better not send anybody else emails because I don't want anyone else to feel like they have to still respond to emails when they're out on parental leave.

have to be on top of emails,[: 00:11:00

And so you would look around and he would be gone. He didn't have to tell you he was leaving. He was your boss, but he never really showed you that it was okay to leave. And so then when I felt like I needed to leave, I was like am I just supposed to sneak out? What am I supposed to do? Is it okay if I have a kid thing?

Is it okay if I don't feel good and I just want to get home early? Really walking the walk is a big piece of it for your team.

CheeTung Leong: It's, it sounds like walking the walk, but also communicating that you're walking the walk. Yeah. It's important.

Erica Anderson Rooney: Yeah, otherwise, you're like, what's going on?

that time off because it is, [: 00:12:00

And that's what the leader truly believes, but they may not be communicating that with their actions very clearly.

Erica Anderson Rooney: I very clearly set that expectation when I get a new hire, I will tell them, I don't care when you get your work done as long as it gets done and we will never have to have another conversation about this unless your work is not getting done, you want to leave early on a Friday because you're taking a trip like go ahead as long as your work is done as long as you are being a productive member of this team.

But if you're leaving work every day early, Balls are getting dropped. Like then we're going to have a different discussion and that's where the trust piece comes in. But I very clearly outlined that in the beginning. And, to the point we talked about earlier, sometimes it takes team members.

A minute to realize that I'm serious about that. And then once they do, because they see me do it, right? I'll tell them like, Hey, I'm going on a family trip. I'm trying to get out an hour early to go to the beach. They're like, Oh, okay, cool.

l of this when working. When [: 00:13:00

Erica Anderson Rooney: Expectations, those always bubble to the surface eventually.

So it may not be noticed right away in a work environment, but those eventually bubble to the surface and then you see them. But I, again, big fan of communicating. I have a group Slack channel, individual Slack channels, Slack channels between two or three individuals. And I just make sure that everybody knows what's going on.

So for example, today, on Wednesdays, I typically have a team meeting with everyone in H. R. And I was looking over all of my to do's and I have a pretty tight schedule today and I don't have a lot of action items. So I looked at it and I was like I don't really have anything for them. So I go to the group and I say, Hey, do you guys have anything for me today?

t needed to be handled in an [: 00:14:00

And then moving forward with your day.

CheeTung Leong: I think one of the struggles that I have had with text communication or this chat, and this may be something that's unique to my demographic, I don't know, but it means so many different things sometimes when someone says, okay, or when, when someone replies. Sure.

Erica Anderson Rooney: Are you being sassy or are you being genuine? I don't know.

people [: 00:15:00

So how do you bridge that gap? Like we can't be getting on calls. All the time, especially if you're in different locations, different time zones. What have you seen that works for you?

Erica Anderson Rooney: Let's talk about this thumbs up emoji because this is really what's sparking the debate here. And I'm a big fan of the thumbs up emoji.

People send me something cool. Got it. Like you want to do this? Everything's great. And I recently said this to a person on my team who was younger. And she was like, Erica, you cannot be using that thumbs up emoji. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she's it's pretty much like sending a big middle finger.

Yeah, okay. Got it. And I was shook. I could not believe it because number one, I've been doing it for years, but she said that, yes, the Gen Zers of the world look at it as more of a big. Like I don't care. I'm not engaged. It's like a, non pulsed response and I could not believe it because this whole time I've been doing it.

eting with all of my VPs and [: 00:16:00

She trusts me, she knows what I meant by the thumbs up emoji. So it goes back to again, really knowing and trusting your team. And then my foundation for all things HR is always believing the best in people. So you have to believe the best in people that if the chief people officer is sending you a thumbs up emoji, she's not telling you to get lost.

She's telling you it's okay, but to have those conversations and then also to have those people who can put you into check when you're telling people who don't know you that well, hey, good job.

ly or in hybrid mode or even [: 00:17:00

I think that's the most important thing. And then the flip side to that is that we need to be quite direct in our communications. When things are not okay, we have to be okay to say that it's not okay, right up front. So that there's no, there's none of that passive aggressive nonsense that can easily come through in communications on chat.

Erica Anderson Rooney: I think a lot of times, small annoyances over time lead up to big problems, right? And so I could be sending the thumbs up emoji to somebody 10 times, and on the 11th time, they lose it. But had they come to me on the first or second time and said, Hey, I just want to check in with you because you're sending me this big old, emoji.

w better, you do better. And [: 00:18:00

Like instead I can literally type out the words. Okay, great. Because that takes just as much time. So think through those things, but have the courage to let somebody know I just want to check in with you. But if you go at the entire conversation, number one, believing the best in people, number two, trusting that everybody in your company and your organization is there to do good work.

And that is your foundation. You can have those types of conversations. If something doesn't resonate with you, if something feels off, you can clear the air right away rather than letting it fester.

CheeTung Leong: I'm going to quickly wrap up and then have you summarize your key takeaways. My key takeaways have been to build trust individually before you can do that collectively.

The second one was that leaders need to walk that talk and communicate that they're walking the talk.

k. So those are my three big [: 00:19:00

Erica Anderson Rooney: I think my first one is always listen more than you talk as a leader, because when you listen and you really hear the words people are saying and how they are saying them, you as the leader can adapt your style and how you trust with people. Listening more than you talk. The second thing is intentionally building relationships with everyone around you, the people who report to you, the people you report to, and your peers. Because when you build those relationships and you solidify that trust, it makes it so much easier to show up and to communicate effectively. And then, what we touched on at the end is always believing the best in people.

And when you approach all of your situations that everyone at this company is, trying to do their best work and they're here to do good work. You can come from a place of abundance rather than one of negativity and scarcity.

o do so to follow up on this [: 00:20:00

Erica Anderson Rooney: Yeah, if they wanna follow up on this conversation, I'm super active on LinkedIn. My name is Erica Anderson Rooney. Or you can go to my website, which is just www.ericaandersonrooney.com.

CheeTung Leong: Thanks so much for hanging with us today, Erica. And for those of you who are listening. I hope you enjoyed the show and got quite a lot to take away. Be mindful of that thumbs up emoji and make sure to drop us a review. You I'm going to take all those thumbs ups as likes and tune in the next time on the HR impact show for more insights from top leaders in HR.

I've been CT and it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for listening.