Building a Culture of Trust: The Key to Retaining Top Talent

[: 00:00:00

That is one of the key questions that we're tackling in today's special feature on leadership best practices in K through 12 education, rising from the ranks of an average.

School district to an excellent school district is a goal that a lot of school districts and even businesses and people have. Rising from the middle of the pack to the top of the table is something that everybody aspires to. This conversation will tackle some of the very practical things that you can do in any business to achieve that level of success.

w to do more with less, this [: 00:01:00

We have Danielle Scott. Goes by Dani Superintendent of the Pecatonica School District in Wisconsin. The Pecatonica Area School District, provides a diverse education in a safe, supportive environment to prepare students to become productive learners and citizens. Dr. D has her Ed. D.

from Edgewood College, and she started through the ranks as a school psychologist and counselor. Danny, welcome to the show.

[: 00:01:29

[00:01:31] Dr. Jim: Yeah. Nice to have you on . Pumped to chat with you. And I think you're going to bring a unique perspective to the conversation. And before we dive in, I know that I I short changed a lot about your bio.

ly good perspective to guide [: 00:02:00

[00:02:01] Dani Scott: Yeah, absolutely. So I didn't grow up thinking I would end up in the field of education. Actually if anybody would have asked me from a young age all the way through high school, I was going to be a pre med major and go on to medical school. And then I had my first college chemistry course and I said, there's no way I can do this for the next eight to 12 years.

And so I did some soul searching and actually had some psych classes in high school and at the college level and just really fell in love with the field. So pursued that as an undergrad obviously there's not a ton that you can do with just an undergrad psych degree.

of our students is one of my [: 00:03:00

And so that I really found my passion in that. So I went on to get my master's in school psychology, went on again to get my school counseling license and then finally ended up getting my doctorate. But interestingly enough through my superintendent program and my doctorate, I actually did my dissertation on, trauma and how schools can support kids with significant trauma.

selor, a director of special [: 00:04:00

And so I knew ending my career at the superintendent level would be the the pinnacle point of my career. I three years ago became superintendent of Pecatonica School District very rural district in the Southwest corner of Wisconsin and absolutely love it.

[: 00:04:21

I was fine with chemistry and physics and biology and all of that as the site of blood that didn't really work for me. So I, ruined my mom's hopes and dreams as a, as an Indian mother of having a doctor in the family, just years later, I became a different kind of doctor. I kinda, I'll call that a half a win.

ground coming up through the [: 00:05:00

[00:05:15] Dani Scott: Sometimes we can have the view of which is more important systems or culture, and for me culture really is the foundation for establishing Any kind of organization if you, if you have a a negative or distressful or suspicious or fearful culture obviously that's not an environment that any of us can.

to take risks and to try new [: 00:06:00

And it's really developing them as a whole child not just the academics, but the social and emotional learning and the career exploration, none of that can happen in an environment that's not safe and secure and positive, and the same goes for our. Adults as well, none of us can thrive in an environment that's negative or toxic.

And so really bringing that psychology lens into the world of the superintendency, that was first and foremost, a priority for me. I knew nothing else would happen. We would not raise our test scores. We would not retain staff. We would not. Produce successful students if that positive culture wasn't there.

[: 00:06:42

I always talk about, hey, this is a transformation effort that you're trying to achieve and whenever you think about a transformation effort, it has three components to it. There's a people element, there's a process element, and there's a systems element and all three need to be done well for you to successfully do a transformation.

But I often say. Before you can even attempt to start this, tell me about where your people infrastructure is set up. What does that foundation look like? Because without the right people in the right seats, you're not going to be successful on any of those other things. Same with same with process.

If you don't have the right people, if you don't have the right process, you could have the greatest piece of technology that comes in your environment, you're still not going to be successful. So I like your emphasis on. You referenced it as culture, but what's a culture without people? People make the culture.

o that a little bit and talk [: 00:08:00

From your perspective, what were the things that you. Noticed early on in your tenure you started hearing and seeing from the team that was around you and how did that shape the direction that you took moving forward?

[: 00:08:28

And so, obviously through that interview process I was also looking for leaders that shared the same emphasis on relationship building that I did. [00:09:00] And I was very fortunate to find two incredible leaders that now work alongside me. And the. Administrator that was already here a director of special education and people's services.

She, already comes with that psych background. And so her and I talk the same language. So I already knew that was a strong priority for her as well. And so really, very early on when I started here at PAC I, had, I sat down with my administrative team and I said, Outside anything that obviously was unethical or illegal, I was not looking to make any significant process changes, system changes within the first year.

nt early on that perhaps the [: 00:10:00

And so we really had to go slow to go fast because. People we were coming into an environment that certainly was not toxic by any way, shape or form, but was a little mistrustful and a little fearful. And so we really had to build what I call our street cred with our staff. And we had to walk the walk and talk the talk and know that when we said something, we we were going to do something, we would follow through with that.

And so really letting our actions. Speak in terms of building that culture of trust and community. And so really I think within a very short time we've, been able to really shift the culture in our buildings towards one of transparency and openness and trust.

[: 00:11:00

You know what you seek input from staff, but, and ultimately at the end of the day, I have to make the decision,. In one of my very few first communications with staff, I said, you may not always agree with the decisions I make, but I will always share with you the rationale. For the decision that I am making.

to build those relationships [: 00:12:00

So I really, we, in our administrative teams that we meet twice a month we really have some honest, open and tough conversations as a team. And we don't always agree with one another, but We feel safe enough and we feel comfortable enough, to talk openly and to share our opinions and our ideas.

And so it's really modeling that trust and community within that smaller admin team, then that the principals and our director can take back to their staff and modeled that same kind of culture within their buildings as well.

[: 00:12:34

So when you look at that trust building, the community building, the relationship emphasis as a way. As a starting point, what have e you seen in terms of impact on one of the goals you have is that if you want to build a top dress district, you got to retain your people. So tell us a little bit more about how that's shown up, in the short amount of time that you've been putting these things into place.

[: 00:13:36

But we always look at the skill set [00:14:00] that our teachers are bringing to the table and their potential. Can we grow them to be an A level educator? And so I think a lot, of things go into that. As a superintendent, I highly value professional development for our staff. I think oftentimes in the budget Landscape that we're facing today.

Oftentimes professional development is one of the first things that gets cut. And that's definitely not something that I have allowed to happen. Actually, since since I started here in Pakatonica, one of the things that I have done is I have brought in. National speakers to do our back to school in service.

o the very best professional [: 00:15:00

that they can have. Those opportunities can't just be for our districts of five, 10, 000 students. We really have to, walk the walk and show our teachers that we value them. And one of the ways we can do that is by giving them access to that that top notch professional development.

I think there's a couple other things that, that we haven't implemented since I've been here. We as an administrative team really, treat our staff as the professionals that they are we're not watching time clocks and having staff punch in, punch out, we give them a great deal of flexibility and autonomy in terms of obviously we expect them to be in the classroom and be ready to go.

flexibility that they might [: 00:16:00

A couple of other things that we've done is, Typically, within districts, you might have rather than a professional development day, you might have what we call a workday where you're finishing up grading for the semester for the quarter. And so 1 of the things that we have implemented.

Since I came here to Peck is we have given staff the flexibility to, do their grading at home. Nothing says they have to be within the confines of their classroom to get that kind of work done. And so staff have really appreciated that flexibility and that autonomy. And again, it just goes back to promoting that healthy work life balance.

The third thing I just want to touch on, so we have really been mindful of incorporating into our professional development opportunities for staff opportunities to support their mental health. This is time for you to do whatever you need to support your own mental health, whatever it is you need to do.

building. They can do those [: 00:17:00

[00:17:29] Dr. Jim: What you presented is a robust list of things that you're doing that's designed to influence teacher retention outcomes.

And what's interesting about it is that you referenced The shortage of teachers is one of the reasons why you're so focused in these areas to make sure that you're creating the environment that is tailored to promote all sorts of well being things on the educator side, to zone in on the professional development component.

h an emphasis on maintaining [: 00:18:00

[00:18:14] Dani Scott: I think for me, it goes back to, Making sure our teachers and our support staff feel valued. And I think one, a great way to do that is by showing them that we are invested in their own personal and professional growth. And It is not unusual for a conference or a workshop to come across my desk.

And I will actually reach out to staff and say, Hey, are you interested in attending this? And on more than one occasion I've had a response like, wow I've, never had a superintendent, invite me to attend a some type of professional development opportunity. Oftentimes it's things that I need to search out.

just, showing staff that we [: 00:19:00

So you absolutely, you can approach and teach a classroom the same way now that even five years ago. that you could have. And so it's always about refreshing, not getting stagnant and growing as those key people in the lives of our children. When you look at the amount of time kids spend in school and outside of sleeping teachers are one of the single most influential people.

In the lives of children. And so if we don't take the time and devote the resources to make sure that we are putting the very best people in front of our kids, then then I'm not doing my job as a superintendent.

[: 00:19:52

Automatically come out being the best. You have to have investments from people around you and you have to invest in yourself too. So if a school district is thinking about, Hey, we want to be the best of the best. It just doesn't happen through magic. There's gotta be effort that's put behind it.

But I want to loop back around to something that I mentioned in the beginning of the conversation, which was, how can you leverage What you learn from people who are leaving people who are coming and people who are staying to inform what decisions you make across the district and prioritize what needs to be prioritized so that you can you could move forward effectively and begin the path to becoming excellent.

hen I'm trying to build this [: 00:21:00

[00:21:00] Dani Scott: As a district, we had done a really good job of interviewing or surveying teachers when they left our district for another district. We could get a sense of what factors played into their decision, but we really, Never surveyed our, staff that are staying.

And what are the factors that are getting people to stay in Pacatonica? We are about 45 minutes to an hour away from Madison a large metropolitan area, We are very cognizant that our teachers could go 30 minutes, 45 minutes down the road and, make more money than, what we're able to make here in Pecatonica.

ementary, and then we've had [: 00:22:00

And so it was really important for me to dig in into, okay why, are people staying when obviously they could go half hour down the road and maybe find a bigger district or more opportunities or better pay. And we recently just did a survey of our teachers.

It was not required and it was a hundred percent anonymous. And just asking, I asked teachers what are the top three reasons why, you stay in Pacatonica? And it was. I I went into that, I thought maybe I had an idea of what would come out at the top, but I was a little surprised at the results.

ary and benefits fell in the [: 00:23:00

So we have done some steps to take care of that as well. But so it really goes back to some of those, intangible things that I think oftentimes especially. Some leaders maybe struggle with because there's not a recipe or there's not a blueprint about how to build that culture within your buildings and be pretty touchy feely kind of stuff.

And so some leaders aren't comfortable with that. And they they want to come in with a, with an action plan and here's what we're going to do to raise test scores and student achievement and it, all of those factors are absolutely important.

rom those STACE surveys that [: 00:24:00

[00:24:10] Dr. Jim: I really appreciate that perspective. And when I listened to the two things that you cited that most often came up or at the top of the list, number one was relationship. Number two was administration support. And when I put it. Into the lens of where my research is focused on.

I'm a retention and turnover nerd. That's what my doctoral research was on. This is probably still the case now. But when you look at the top 5 most common reasons why somebody leaves an organization, there's usually Two out of the top five are immediate manager related.

So if somebody is going to leave, it's going to two out of five times is going to be attributed to some sort of manager issues. So your emphasis when you surveyed it, it's not surprising that when you do. Surveyed the people that stick around. They mentioned their relationships and they mentioned the support.

l directly influenced by the [: 00:25:00

And I think I think there's a lot of lessons to be gained from listening to this conversation, especially from the fact that you stepped into a middle of the road district and now you're a top 100 district in Wisconsin. So there's a lot of good stuff there. I'd like you to do is when you think about the conversation that we've had, what are the top two or three things that listeners need to pay attention to if they want to adopt some of the best principles or key principles that you put into place to have similar results in their, districts or even in their workplaces.

[: 00:25:44

And, clearly communing, communicating your expectations with them in terms of what, your priorities are, but for me and I, think that's one of the great things about being in a small rural district in Wisconsin is that I can get out of my office actually just this week.

I, carved out time. And I met with almost every single elementary teacher this week just to have a 15, 20 minute conversation about what's going right now what challenges are you facing? And, then I ended the conversation with what can I do to support you, in your journey as an educator.

And so just really modeling that relationship building and that positive culture and that culture of trust. From, the top down I think I would say that's probably the number one priority or where I would start if, a new superintendent is looking to how they can build that culture within their district.

of the, of the things that I [: 00:27:00

So I would say take time to build those relationships and take time, at least in the beginning, to over communicate and I think those two things have really served me well in developing a culture, really laid the foundation for us to to go from average to great,

[: 00:27:35

[00:27:42] Dani Scott: Yeah, I welcome emails at any point. Also just search Pecatonica Area School District. Now I would caution you, there's a Pecatonica, Illinois. We have received some of their mail on occasion. So just search Pecatonica Area School District in Wisconsin all of my contact information is out [00:28:00] there as well.

[: 00:28:00

And oftentimes when we talk about organizational transformation, everybody automatically goes to, what can I do? To create immediate impact, and that might not be the best mindset to be in because you're forgetting some key principles that allow you to make that impact. And what I gathered from your story is that your emphasis on listening first, listening deeply and asking questions actually provided the foundation for you to create impact because that.

nding what's going on in the [: 00:29:00

And the other lesson that I took away from. Your story is that a big emphasis or a big reason, at least from your perspective, that you've been able to impact these retention outcomes is your commitment to investment in the people in the district. When you ignore employee development due to budget constraints, you're actually probably going to make the situation worse within your organization.

So if you're going to cut something I would urge administrators and leaders to stay away from cutting things that actually develop your people, because that's going to have a cascading effect. That's often going to lead to a bunch of people heading for the exits. So I appreciate you sharing that with us, Danny, for those of you who have been listening to this conversation, we appreciate you hanging out.

e podcast. Podcast platform. [: 00:30:00