Modeling the Way: How Senior Leaders Can Empower Managers to Build High-Performing Teams

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When you look at the state of productivity in the U. S., according to Gallup, anywhere from 400 to 500 billion in productivity are lost every year due to poor employee engagement. If we really had the feedback and coaching cultures In place that we say we like and that we're good at would we be seeing these numbers?

Would we be seeing the constant churn that seems to be standard these days? Especially when it comes to our frontline employees . Those are just a few of the questions that we're going to tackle and answer today with our featured guest. Anita Chandra shaker. So what's her story?

lfless contributor with over [: 00:01:00

She's currently a people leader at Zapier and we're thrilled to have her on the show, Anita. Welcome to the show.

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[00:01:33] Dr. Jim: Yeah. I think we're going to cover a lot of ground in the conversation. And a good way for us to get started is to have you fill in for the listeners. Some of the details that we left out in the bio, there's only so much that we can get into in a 45 second blurb. Tell us some of the important stuff that we left out that you feel is going to be relevant to the conversation that we're going to have.

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And then I really wanted to work in the field of education. So I went on to pursue a master's degree in public policy in Singapore. And then for about a Decade after my master's, I was in the nonprofit sector and I served in various capacities within teach for America. And it was during this time that I stumbled into recruitment and talent strategy work, which I have just really enjoyed.

And then I moved to Zapier almost two years ago to continue that work. And in my current role, what I do is I lead the global recruitment strategy operations team at Zapier. There's two parts to that. One part is just of the enablement of our recruitment team. And that includes everything from data reporting, training, knowledge management, managing our internal mobility and promotions process and many other things.

as a de facto like chief of [: 00:03:00

[00:03:02] Dr. Jim: One of the first things that caught my attention when you're going through your background is the contrast of experience between your time in the consulting and finance sector compared to your time in more of the public policy and maybe even the NPO space.

And the reason why it caught my interest is that culturally you have two different worldviews. In those environments. So if you're thinking in the finance sector, it's pretty cutthroat. It's pretty bottom line, maximize shareholder value type organizations, and then you look at your time at teach for America, which is very, social impact focus.

How did those two contrasting experiences shape your overall people strategy philosophy when you look at at your career progression?

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And I think Zapier is like a nice middle ground, which is what I love about it. The thing that you learn though, at the fundamental baseline of all of it is that talent, And people drive the work, no matter where you go or what you're doing. It is excellent talent and really motivated, engaged people that move the work.

And I've seen this from having incredible managers at all of these places and how that can really shape how I have led into the work, depending on how my manager has led me. And so I've tried to learn from the different managers I've had over the times Try to see what were the things about the way they led or what they did or how they guided me that really brought me into the work, wanting me to be my best self every single day.

ey, but I think that is what [: 00:05:00

Ultimately it's people who drive the work.

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feeling that your manager doesn't really care about your career trajectory. And that shows up in a lot of different ways. Share with us a little bit about what does an incredible manager look like from a day to day perspective from the view of an employee?

How do you need to show up to be classified as an incredible manager? Because I believe that's a gap that's out there considering the level of churn that exists.

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And when I've had managers who I haven't directly connected with or have had some initial friction with. I've tried my best to make and build that relationship such that relationship would be better through open communication and then given it a chance because people are different and it takes time to find that rhythm and get that moving.

So I think sometimes even giving it a chance and working through the kinks helps you get there, even if it isn't there right from the beginning. From the get go. So I will name that. I've also experienced that. But to answer your question of what is a great manager who sets apart a great manager?

fundamentally cares about me [: 00:07:00

And I need to know that this person is my champion. That is number one. Number two. I need to believe that this person trusts me deeply trusts me because when I show up to work, I believe that I have a strong work ethic. I will do everything I can. To do my best, my so to, to trust in the fact that I will come in comfort that way and not have to micromanage me is something that I deeply care about so that I have the space to innovate.

I have the space to make mistakes. I have this space to learn and grow through feedback maybe. So feedback isn't the, piece I'm talking about in terms of micromanaging. I want the feedback but also gives me that space. So that's number two. And then that goes into number three of feedback. I've heard people talk about how their managers always say, Oh, you're doing great.

t feel like you've done that [: 00:08:00

I think those are people who invested in providing me the feedback I needed when I made mistakes, but in a way for it to not feel judgmental, but as a learning opportunity. So I would say maybe those are at the highest level, the three pieces, and that has automatically led to me having a sense of Deep trust in my managers.

And when I have trust, when I believe this person's got my back and when I believe that they care about me, I just show up in my, best way possible every single day.

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new sort of world of work. It's not the [00:09:00] era of free money where you can just churn through employees and hope something works out. There seems to be a shift where the emphasis is on development and retention. If there's a manager that's out there that wants to demonstrate to their people that they are committed to their growth and learning, what are the things that they should be doing in the day to day or week to solidify that commitment and that emphasis in growth and learning?

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because so much of my work is about enabling and growing our team's capabilities through training and processes and all of that. I'd say at the highest level there are a few different things that [00:10:00] I would anchor on just in terms of how you can develop that development and growth culture within your work. So one is around empowerment and autonomy. I think. If we expect our team members to own their projects, make the decisions and learn from the outcomes, I think that autonomy really just not only boosts confidence, but also nurtures in people a sense of responsibility, both towards personal and professional growth.

And importantly, I think if we take the time to recognize achievements, both small. There is that encouragement where people can share recent wins share learning and just consistently encourage experimentation. So I would say that the autonomy encouragement and empowerment is one. Second, I would say is the piece that I was talking about what I loved about my managers is that continuous learning and feedback.

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That feels just so critical in all of the things that I named, like building the trust, encouraging folks, making people feel engaged. We've also just at here, at least with my teams, what I've tried to do is I create a really clear process around project work just to make sure that people feel well equipped and supported to take on the but are also able to Step out of their usual responsibilities and take on other works so that they can learn and grow.

And that is what that continuous learning is. And when you think about performance management systems, you have, it's not just that end of year performance management. It involves continuous, regular check ins, constructive feedback. When you see it in the moment of places where people can improve, just orienting that way in terms of overall performance management.

mproving the outcome of your [: 00:12:00

So I try to do that with my teams, just really realizing the power of a strengths based approach in performance management. I think it helps encourage people to focus more and develop and utilize their strengths instead of focusing on the deficits. And I think that just leads to higher engagement, satisfaction, and just productivity in general, because if we encourage teams to develop subject matter expertise and build resources, I think they just lean into work.

In a much better way. of course, you should always have your areas of improvement, areas of development, your weaknesses that you want to grow on. But if you anchor in a bit more on the strengths based approach, it makes a huge difference. And then lastly, I would say, and this is the key piece, especially as you were talking about the retention, ensuring period Individual performance goals are closely aligned with overall team objectives and overall mission of the organization.

A [: 00:13:00

[00:13:19] Dr. Jim: That's a real good, lead in to the broader conversation that we're going to have.

And one of the things that I mentioned early on in the conversation was how much productivity is lost due to a lack of employee engagement. What you just described is a roadmap for how this can be fixed. But let's be real. A lot of managers are so stretched that they don't even think about these things and are just managing the tactical elements of the job of their job as well as the jobs of the people that roll into them.

So when you think about how you've been able to build high performing teams and how you've been part of high performing teams, how did that gap get bridged?

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Ultimately the bottom line is. I look good when my team looks good. I cannot deny that. I just look good when my team makes me look good and my team does make me look good. And that is because there are some basic fundamental building blocks that are there for the team. One of them being trust, I think is a foundation.

It is the cornerstone of our team dynamics. I think it allows for that open, honest exchange and the willingness to take those calculated risks. Just knowing that the team has your back. And one way that we build trust is by being thoughtful about how we show the team that we're listening. To what they need.

s with my folks so that they [: 00:15:00

So I think taking the time to build that. It doesn't always have to be because then it becomes a lot more organic, but taking the time to build that trust as a foundation. Also, when you think about larger team, you can do that. For example, most teams do these team engagement surveys or your culture app scores,.

They answer things. People often wonder why am I taking the time to even answer these things? Are people doing anything about it? I think taking clear definitive steps because that data tells us so much and taking steps to improve those scores. That's something we take very seriously on our team right now.

so important. As I said, for [: 00:16:00

And my team knows that. And that makes a huge difference in how they engage and show up on the work. So that's the foundation of trust on one side. The other thing is, I think you can be a good manager, but if you want to truly be a great one, you need to also be a coach. And I think of myself as a coach first, because I actively work on unlocking each team member's potential and guiding them through challenges and helping them grow rather than just directing them.

My best managers 100 percent did that for me and the way I have developed and the confidence I have in my ability to take on problems is a clear fundamental reason comes from this. And for example, I can give you an example. One of my direct reports she is working on actively trying to improve her data literacy.

l me. I try and give her the [: 00:17:00

Here's what I need. Here's the general overview. And then I let her play around with the data. Once she has something ready, we sit down, we review it together. I give her some more feedback and guidance, and then she goes off and makes changes based on that feedback. Then she has a new product. We meet back again.

I call this early slice, mid slice, late slice work, and I give her more feedback. And this process, the thing is it's a longer process. It requires more iteration. And as you said, managers may not have time, but I know she's learning not just to execute a task, but to think strategically about what we need and how she can make that come to life.

The next time we have a problem, I'm not going to have to redo this whole process because she's been given the fundamental tools to be able to think strategically. So I would say that trust and that coaching piece feels critical early on. And I don't know if you need to do as much of that later. It's an initial investment piece.

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So they never actually connect the dots to the bigger picture that you described. So that's really great stuff. Now, the question that I have for you. Is yes, that takes time. How can senior leaders support frontline managers so that they have the time to go ahead and execute that? Because that's a gap that exists in a lot of places as well where managers are stretched.

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[00:19:10] Anita Chandrashekar: There's two main things. One modeling. You just need to keep modeling what you expect to see if you are not doing it as a senior leader, taking that time to establish with your next set of managers. They will not do it with the next set of managers. It's just a downward trickle. People will do what they see their managers do that works for them.

So I think taking the time to model feels like the most critical. You be the change you want to see. And that is something that they need to do modeling too. I think even people with all the right intentions. Make the mistakes. So how are you continuously asking for feedback? And I'll say that I've done this.

get done and I Maybe without [: 00:20:00

We take the time to sit back and think like our, rhythm includes those one on ones and retrospectives. Focus as much on the personal dimension. Dynamic of it, but also where is the safe space for an honest conversation? How do you build relationships with that honest conversation? When you sit in those retrospectives and talk about how did this project go?

Some of it felt really rushed. What could we be doing better next time so that we're learning? I've had my direct reports who in the past have said it has been really helpful that I've been a coach, but I've told me in the moment in that particular project, I got too much into the detail, which didn't give them the opportunity to learn.

And I need to step back and [: 00:21:00

This is fantastic for me to know, tell me in the moment. Next time I'm jumping too much into it. Tell me in the moment, tell me in the moment that this is actually not working for my learning. This is you just telling me what to do. I need to step back and just need a little more time. I will be just as effective.

Just give me the time and I will back off. So being willing to take that feedback continuously. And making sure that people are continuously modeling. Those are the two things that come to mind.

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[00:21:47] Anita Chandrashekar: Yeah, absolutely. I'm a big fan of Brené Brown, and I really prescribe to her idea of leading with courage and vulnerability because what that does is it builds [00:22:00] psychological trust and the sense of safety and allowing vulnerability to thrive, I think, is just such an essential element in creating Elite and high performing teams.

And the way you do this is not just by saying it, but by demonstrating it again by modeling. Leaders need to demonstrate vulnerability and open openness, right? They need to share their challenges, their learning experiences. I personally say I do this. I openly admit with my team places where I may have made a mistake and what I learned from that.

And I think what it does is it creates an environment where all open and honest communication is just value. So you shift the perspective on failure from being punitive to being just a natural part of the learning process. And if you encourage teams to analyze failures and extract lessons. What is great is they can apply them to future endeavors.

o on and so forth. So how do [: 00:23:00

I think that sense of belonging and commitment to the team and they feel comfortable, whether it's sharing ideas or it's sharing concerns, or it is my direct report sharing feedback with me that. Every now and then I might be engaging in a way that is not ideal for her. So that feedback, so that open communication, I think, is then crucial for problem solving for innovation.

And the added benefit is always there when your team is diverse,. And our teams are diverse, not just in demographics, but also in thought and experience. So all of that comes together. The diversity in the teams in thought the vulnerability that people show and allowing for that to overall build psychological trust.

Now, what [: 00:24:00

Now this takes time because it takes time to build that trust. It takes time to, to give it that space to grow. And it's about vulnerability leading to that risk taking, which then leads to innovation. And I think we at least really help encouraging this by creating processes where people can take time in retrospectives, take time in sitting in, Naming the things we should have done differently, putting it out in the open, but not just one person, everyone learning it.

So folks are not getting defensive. Yeah, so I would say the key pieces there are the psychological trust, vulnerability, diverse teams, and then in turn leading to people being willing to take risks and innovate.

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And if you're speaking too quickly, You're going to stunt, stunt the ability for those ideas to take the floor and win or lose on their merits. When you think back to the entire arc of what we talked about, what are the couple of things that you feel the listener should keep in their back pocket and carry with them as they're looking to build this type of environment where it's high trust, high feedback, building a coaching culture.

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So when you, if I were to compare this to dance, I would say that the trust and coaching is what is, the rhythm that leads and then. If [00:26:00] that rhythm is leading innovation takes the spotlight. And then with that, if you think of strong communication as the beat that helps you move all that together, just helps teams embrace something that becomes a masterpiece, endless possibilities, .

So that, that is if you think about it from the perspective of a metaphor, that's the one that I would give, but ultimately just remember that a culture of continuous learning and collaboration and vulnerability is just the heartbeat. of innovation. So as you lead your teams, just embrace the power of coaching, fostering a culture of open feedback and watch as innovation just doesn't become a goal, but it becomes a way of life for your team.

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[00:26:44] Anita Chandrashekar: They can find me on LinkedIn. Anita Chandrasekhar at Zapier. They can absolutely find me at LinkedIn and I'm happy to chat.

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How do you build feedback and coaching [00:27:00] culture? There's a, there's one big thing that comes to mind and that's this. You as a manager, you as a senior leader, you as an executive leader have to decide how you're going to show up as a leader. Are you going to be a leader who leads with the task or are you going to be the leader that leads with the vision?

Because what option you pick Is going to determine how well an organization is going to adopt that coaching and feedback culture. If you're managing purely to the task, you're going to have a bunch of people that are in your organization that are just checking boxes off as they work through their day, and ultimately, if you do too much of that, they're going to Disengaged, they're going to feel stifled in their growth and they're not going to understand the why behind the what they're doing.

element in the conversation [: 00:28:00

also make sure that you're joining the HR impact community. You can find that at www engage rocket. co slash HR impact. Tune in next time where we'll have another great leader hanging out with us and sharing with us the game changing insights that led to them being able to build a high performance team.